COTTON EXEMPTIONS, APPEALS, AND COMPENSATION OF GINNERS FRIDAY, FEBRUARY 22, 1935 HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES, The committee met, pursuant to adjournment, at 10:30 a. m., Hon. Marvin Jones (chairman) presiding. The CHAIRMAN. The committee will come to order, please. Gentlemen, the time set for the hearing was 10:30 this morning. Mr. Cobb, chief of the cotton section, telephoned that he would not be able to come this morning, but a little later said that he could come. However, he is not here at the present time, and if the committee desires, we might go into executive session this morning and decide what we want to do about this. Mr. KLEBERG. We would only have a few minutes, would we not, Mr. Chairman? The CHAIRMAN. The House meets at 11 o'clock this morning, and, of course, there is not much time to be given to the hearing. Mr. KLEBERG. The only thought I have about going into executive session at this time is there are some points that I would like to have cleared up in the discussion on the bill from the Department. Mr. DoXEY. We have some Congressmen here who could use the time, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. The only reason I thought it would be well to go into executive session is that we are going to take up the triple A legislation beginning at 10:30 o'clock Tuesday, and this legislation is such that if we are going to hear everybody the probability is that we may not have any legislation. Mr. KLEBERG. I am not interested so much in extending the hearing, Mr. Chairman, as I am in satisfying myself as to whether or not we ought to take action respecting the suggested amendment, and I would like to know more about the proposal of the Department. The CHAIRMAN. Yes, Mr. Kleberg. Mr. KLEBERG. I am not entirely satisfied in my own mind what direction the Department regulations are going to take to remedy the trouble that we are having and whether or not they are going to be able to reach it, and I would like to know more fully the attitude of the Department with reference to regulations. That is the only point I have in mind. The CHAIRMAN. It might be well to have discussion as to whether we are going on with further hearings; however, there is not going to be much time for additional hearing. Mr. Cobb has just come in, and we will continue to hear from him what he desires to add. STATEMENT OF C. A. COBB, CHIEF, COTTON SECTION-Resumed Mr. COBB. I will be glad to answer any questions, Mr. Chairman. The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Cobb, I think some of the members have some questions they desire to ask you about certain provisions in the bill. If anyone wants to ask Mr. Cobb any questions, he will be glad to answer them. Mr. FULMER. Mr. Cobb, I would like to ask you to turn to page 2 of my bill, and I want to ask you a question or two on section (h). On page 2, subsection (h). I am sure that you are familiar with the various types of farmers in the country and in the section in which you have resided, in Georgia, for quite a long time. I am very familiar with the classes of farmers who are deeply concerned here. I have furnished that type of farmers for years in my mercantile business; many of them are located right around my farm, and the type of farming that I want to mention to you is done by the fellow that runs a 1-horse farm or a 2-horse farm, the type of farmer who has not any capital or any money. He is dependent upon someone or somebody to secure for him a seed loan of whatever amount they will let him have, because he is not able to buy fertilizer and farm extensively like the large farmer; he is the type of farmer that makes about 5 or 6 bales of cotton, or 4 bales, in comparison with the average farmer that is able to farm that same place and would make 10 bales to his 4 or 5. Now, you propose to take care of the farmer that produces 1 bale, 111⁄2 bales, to 2 bales. I have many of that type of farmer in my district who would not produce more than 1 or 2 bales. This will be helpful to this class of farmer; but this other type of farmer above the two bales is the type of farmer which, under the Bankhead bill, as previously stated, is absolutely put out of business. Now, so far as I am concerned, we want to amend this bill to take care of this class of farmer. So this subsection is aimed to give the farmer five bales if his allotment is below five bales. Now, that will not make very much difference in the long run, but that would be somewhat helpful to that type of farmer that I have referred to. I would like very much to have your reaction on that type of amendment. Mr. CоBв. Our proposal, Mr. Fulmer, would, I think, in all probability adequately cover the particular type of farmer you have in mind. Now, if we should issue these nontransferable certificates to this 2-bale man, that man, up to 3 bales, and including the 3-bale man, they will come within that provision, and they would even with the 4-bale man. There is one difficulty we get into, if we should assume it to be a difficulty, when we attempt to exempt them. I am going to get Mr. Gaston, who is in my group, to answer you and show how it will work out. We are not spoofing you, if you know what that word is; but what you gentlemen want and what we want is to have as definite an understanding as we approach this problem as it is possible to arrive at; and before Mr. Gaston makes his statement on that point let me say this, that we have approached this whole problem sympathetically, and it is our desire to go just as far as it is possible to go without drawing so much cotton away from other producers beyond that class that it would become immediately unfair. We cannot do that, of course. We can go just so far, and beyond that point I am sure we want to know just how seriously it will affect the other groups, because we do not want to be unfair to another group of people. The question that was asked yesterday morning that we did not have time to answer, if I remember it correctly-I do not recall the exact phraseology of it but I would like to take a moment to answer the question, which was to this effect: That the Department did not want amendments to the present Bankhead Act, and our point of view on that is this: That we prefer, if it is possible to do it, to regulate the matter affecting these problems as they arise from the various sections. As you know, it is almost cotton-planting time in Mr. Kleberg's district now; and if the program is delayed while we wait on amendments to the Bankhead Act, in my judgment, we will have so delayed our problem because of the fact that we will not know what to do or how to do it or how to approach it that the whole matter will have been delayed until we have lost our opportunity, I think. Mr. FULMER. Right in that connection, there is another important amendment, so far as the committee is concerned, dealing with the type of appeals board that you propose to have. And we would like to have, and it would be necessary to have, some information about that. It is my belief if we could take care of that Mr. COBB (interposing). The appeals boards have already been set up, and these boards will work like this: If you have a cotton producer who is not satisfied with his allotment, he will be privileged, as all cotton producers will be throughout the entire Cotton Belt, to list in a blank that we supply to them Mr. FULMER (interposing). I appreciate that, Mr. Cobb; you have pretty fully gone into that before; but the appeal board of the type you have already set up will not appeal to me or to this committee, I do not believe, unless you can have an appeals board composed of men who will be sure that the farmer is going to get his proper allotment. Your proposal, as I understand it, is to set up the appeals board from the Extension Service. Mr. CоBB. Not at all. Mr. FULMER. That is my understanding from what you said yesterday. Mr. COBB. No. If you are satisfied with the statement that has already been made with reference to the mechanics of the appeals board-that was just the point I was going to talk about, and I see no reason to follow that particular point further unless there are some questions raised about it again. The appeals boards are being constituted in this manner: We have attempted to bring into the appeals board farmers from the various sections of the State. Now, we realize that in many, many cases these farmers are not familiar with statistics and they cannot handle statistics, but they will look to the reporters for expert statistical guidance. In some cases the crop reporter may sit in the room with the board in order to interpret the statistics. Our cotton statistics perhaps are as good as any crop statistics in the whole country; and I think on the whole we have a very able corps of people gathering the cotton statistics for the Government. Mr. FULMER. I appreciate that, but how do you propose to have this appeals board set up? Mr. COBB. The appeals board itself-the farmers who sit on the appeals board have been chosen, because of their outstanding ability, from the several sections from which they come. It has not been the case up to the present time that we have had farmers generally on these boards Mr. FULMER (interposing). Right at that point, that will not be satisfactory for this reason: I notice the last selection of farmers, in many sections, worked out this way, that some of them had been out electioneering, doing everything possible to be reappointed to that position and practically every one of them have been reappointed. They intimidated quite a lot of the little farmers, some of them stating if they did not vote for certain men they would not get a further loan, seed loan, or various things like that, or in the making of allotments the asis on which the acreage was made the making of allotments the basis on which the acreage was made might be changed; perhaps a number of these threats were taken a just the same, according to information I have. Now, if the appeals boards are properly selected according to my bill that would be satisfactory to everybody. That is what I am. talking about. Mr. COBB. I do not know whether we have exactly the same group in mind or not, Mr. Fulmer. The appeals board is not the county board. Mr. FULMER. It is a State board. Mr. COBB. It is a temporary State board. Mr. FULMER. Yes. Mr. COBB. The appeal goes from the community committee to the county committee. Attempts will be made by the community committee to iron out the difficulties arising in the community and if they cannot be ironed out there then the farmer who is interested will take his case up with the county board, and if it cannot be settled to his satisfaction there then the appeal will go to the State board of appeals. Mr. FULMER. Yes. Mr. COBB. It will go straight on first to the county committee, and the county committee is responsible to see to it that the appeal is provided for and that the appeal is properly presented to the State appeals board for such adjustment as may seem necessary. If they, the county officials, are right and their figures indicate that they are right, then the county board will be asked not to grant the changes sought. If there has been a misunderstanding and the figures are not wrong in toto but in part an adjustment will be made to that extent. Mr. FULMER. It has been my impression that the trouble last year was brought about because local committees had the last word. Mr. COBB. Well, we had no appeals board as such last year, and I think a great deal of the present misunderstanding grows out of the fact that we did not have an appeals board; did not have time to set them up. If we had had appeals boards I do not believe we would ever have gotten out the certificates in time to prevent a complete break-down. We did, however, pass upon many appeals. I do not know about this situation that you brought up. Certainly, it is a reprehensible thing, to go out and electioneer for this job. I would like to have all the information on that point that you have because you, as well as I, know the conditions that exist in South Carolina and I would be glad to have whatever information you have, or the information any other members of the committee have, on this particular thing. We cannot have that sort of practice in this set-up. Mr. FULMER. I am simply pointing that out to say that I think you will get along all right if you have an appropriate appeals board that will be absolutely fair to the farmer. Mr. COBB. The appeals board members were not elected so it could not have been done on the part of members of that board. Mr. FULMER. How do you go about making your appointment to the appeals board? Mr. COBB. We try to find the man that will be acceptable to the people that have got to put the program into operation. Mr. FULMER. Who advises you on that? Mr. CоBB. The Extension Service; the Extension Service and the farmers of the States, themselves. I was just about to say this about the farmer members on the board: That they could not handle statistics, but they can handle effectively many of the very practical problems which are presented and we have had practical people on these boards. An outstanding case of that was in your own State last year, Mr. Kleberg; the farmers on that board have a lot of common sense, and they are able to arrive at an understanding and answers that mere statisticians and economists could not appreciate. Now the other men that we have put on these boards are the different types of people who can handle the statistical end and can handle the detail office management problems, while the farmers handle the human problems involved. Mr. KLEBERG. May I ask you a question? Mr. CоBB. Yes. Mr. KLEEBERG. Right at that point, there is one thought that I am afraid you do not quite understand with reference to the discussion we had on the appeals board the other day. It was my understanding that it was proposed to constitute as the appeals board the allotment board. Mr. COBB. The State allotment board. Mr. KLEBERG. In that connection it may be that questions will arise in many cases which are going to be whether or not the allotment was correct. Mr. COBB. That is correct. Mr. KLEBERG. Now, I have not had an opportunity to go into the legal aspect of it but I feel reasonably convinced that in any case where the appeals board might render a judgment that would be contrary, in toto, to the farmer, producer's side of the case, that that farmer-producer would immediately be strengthened in his case before the courts of the land by claiming that the appeals board was disqualified to sit in judgment on a question which involves |