Summary of authorized positions, 1961-66 and 1967 increases requested

The CHAIRMAN. Very well. You may proceed.

Commissioner TOBRINER. Adding to the cost of government is the fact that the people local government employs must increase

The CHAIRMAN. Pardon my interruption. I think it would be helpful also and maybe you will develop this as you continue to go. along in your statement. What was the population in 1958?

was the population in 1965?

Commissioner TOBRINER. We have those figures.

What

The CHAIRMAN. It has not increased very much, has it? Commissioner TOBRINER. No, sir. Here are the figures. In 1950

the population was 808,098.

The CHAIRMAN. In what year?
Commissioner TOBRINER. 1950.

In 1960 the population dropped to 763,956.

In 1964 it rose to 795,000. In 1965, according to the Bureau of the Census current population report, the figure is 803,000.

The CHAIRMAN. How does that compare with the 1960 figure?
Commissioner TOBRINER. The 1960 figure was 763,000.
The CHAIRMAN. The estimate now is what?

Commissioner TOBRINER. 803,000.

The CHAIRMAN. What was the earliest estimate in 1950? Commissioner TOBRINER. 808,000. That was not an estimate. That was an actual count.

The CHAIRMAN. Yes, I understand, that was a census figure. The only point I am trying to understand is that though the population of the District of Columbia has stayed fairly constant, you have found it necessary to add some 7,000 people to the payroll?

Is that right?

Commissioner TOBRINER. As the President pointed out in his budget message this year the character of the population has changed considerably over those years. We have had a tremendous increase in school children who of course are nonearners and we have had a large percentage increase in the overage.

The CHAIRMAN. How many school children did you have in 1959? Commissioner TOBRINER. În 1955, Mr. Chairman, we had 105,000 school children. In 1960, we had 120,000-120,200. In 1963 we had 136,700. And in 1965 we had 146,700.

The CHAIRMAN. What is that increase then over those years?

Commissioner TOBRINER. That is about 41,000 increase from 1955 to 1965.

The CHAIRMAN. I am just trying to look at comparative figures here to try to be of assistance to you as to why you have to spend this additional sum of money, why your have to put 7,000 more people on the payroll.

Commissioner TOBRINER. Because as I tried to indicate we have these many more services to provide for people who were not formerly a part of our population 41,000 more school children. I don't believe I have but I can supply the figures in respect to overage persons in the District of Columbia.

The CHAIRMAN. I think it might be helpful for the record.
Commissioner TOBRINER. All right, sir.

(The document referred to follows:)

Apr. 1, 1950.
Apr. 1, 1960.
July 1, 1964.

Overage population in the District of Columbia

56, 687 69, 143

73, 400

The CHAIRMAN. You may proceed, Mr. Tobriner. Commissioner TOBRINER. Adding to the cost of government is the fact that the people, local government employees must increasingly have had far greater training than in the past. We have replaced the turnkey in the prison with a juvenile correction expert. We hire a roving leader recreation specialist instead of letting gang leaders take over young boys. A special teacher trains the mentally retarded child in the classroom instead of making his parents hide him away at home.

A guidance counselor helps the young people identify their skills instead of leaving job choice to chance. Instead of a billy-clubswinging-cop-on-a-beat we want a policeman who is a scientific detective and a human relations expert and who understands the constitutional rights of people.

And to recruit, assist, and direct these professionals requires specialists in management, in personnel, in procurement, in budgeting, and in data processing. Local government must compete for these highly skilled people in a tight market with other levels of government and with private enterprise.

A comprehensive revenue program such as this amendment contains is imperative if the District is to provide the services required to meet the needs of its changing population.

Like other central cities where overall population is fairly stable, the District finds its expenditure needs increasing. Significant increase in the school population to which we have just adverted and the over 65 age population in recent years have placed heavy demands on the District school system and its welfare and health programs.

During the last 10 years, for example, and this is from the President's message, the school age population increased 15 percent and the over 65 age population group rose 24 percent while the working age population decreased 4 percent.

The CHAIRMAN. Could you supply for us during that 10-year period the cost of running the schools?

They cost x number of dollars in 1955, and they cost x number of dollars in 1965.

Commissioner TOBRINER. Yes, sir, we can supply that. Of course these are the appropriations costs. What the proper cost of running the schools over that period only could be--I don't say it is absolutely so but I think you should also see in connection with that the requested appropriation as against the actual appropriation. Because I think as a result, Mr. Chairman, of minimal appropriations for the schools we find ourselves in a position now where a massive dose of expenditures must be applied.

The CHAIRMAN. Whether the Congress was or was not responsive to the requests of the school people is a question that is debatable. What I was interested in, even aside from that, is what amounts the moneys for running the schools has increased, in the past 10 years. (The information is as follows:)

Commissioner TOBRINER. That is correct. A great part of that, Mr. Chairman, has been due to the increase in the stipend of teachers and supervisory personnel. This has been necessitated by the need to compete with other States and with the surrounding areas for teachers.

The CHAIRMAN. Plus increases in the school-age population of 15 percent?

Commissioner TOBRINER. That is right.

The CHAIRMAN. Fifteen percent does not seem to gibe with those figures you gave me of school population.

Commissioner TOBRINER. School-age population rather than school attendance by percent.

The CHAIRMAN. The actual number of students that attended school 10 years ago as compared to those who attend school now. Commissioner TOBRINER. I gave you those figures.

The CHAIRMAN. Will you give those again because I want to relate that to the 15 percent?

Commissioner TOBRINER. In 1955 it was 105,000; in 1960, 120,200; in 1963, 136,700; and in the past 1965, 146,700.

The CHAIRMAN. My whole point is an increase in actual children who attend the schools from 100,000 to 146,000 is certainly a higher percentage than 15 percent.

Commissioner TOBRINER. Yes, a 40-percent increase.

The CHAIRMAN. At least, it seems to me that that percentage is more favorable to your presentation than saying you increased 15 percent.

Commissioner TOBRINER. We wanted to give you the full picture, Mr. Chairman.

The CHAIRMAN. I understand your costs came because of the increase of 46,000 more students that are in school now than there were in 1955?

Commissioner TOBRINER. That is correct.

The CHAIRMAN. I can understand that. This other confuses me just a little. Go ahead, you may proceed.

Senator DOMINICK. Mr. Chairman, before he proceeds may I ask a couple of questions? I apologize for not being here earlier.

The CHAIRMAN. That is perfectly all right. The Senator from Colorado, Senator Dominick.

Senator DOMINICK. Back on page 3 under your general fund you have the substantial increase between 1968 and 1969 of about $30 million in proposed expenditures. I am sure you have gone into this before.

Commissioner TOBRINER. Yes.

Senator DOMINICK. Is this the school situation?