Mr. FEINGOLD. National Citizens Political Action Committee? Senator DONNELL. Is that affiliated with the CIO?

Mr. FEINGOLD. It is not.

Senator DONNELL. Is it the organization of which Mr. Ickes was at one time the director?

Mr. FEINGOLD. It is not.

Senator DONNELL. It is not?

Mr. FEINGOLD. No.

Senator DONNELL. What organization did it spring from, do you know?

Mr. FEINGOLD. The National Citizens Political Action Committee is an independent organization which was formed prior to 1944 election for the purpose of electing Mr. Roosevelt at that time. Senator DONNELL. For the purpose of electing Mr. Roosevelt.

Mr. FEINGOLD. The organization and the Independent Citizens Committee both continued to function after that election for the purpose in mind of preserving the liberal gains made under the leadership of President Roosevelt.

Senator DONNELL. Are there any Communists in this organization, the national Progressive Citizens of America?

Mr. FEINGOLD. Progressive Citizens of America believes that those who believe in the program of the organization, and the program is available to any individual who will abide by the constitution of the organization which declares that the organization will work through democractic processes and declares its faith in the Constitution of the United States; any such individual can become a member of the organization.

Senator DONNELL. That was not the question that I asked you, Mr. Feingold.

I asked you if there are any Communists in the national Progressive Citizens of America?

Mr. FEINGOLD. My point is that

Senator DONNELL. Would you please answer that question?
Mr. FEINGOLD. I will attempt to.

Senator DONNELL. Could you tell us, yes or no, and then explain your answer.

Mr. FEINGOLD. I cannot answer yes or no because Progressive Citizens of America does not ask the political affiliation of its membership.

Senator DONNELL. Do you know whether or not there are any Communists in that organization?

Mr. FEINGOLD. I do not.

Senator DONNELL. Are there any Communists in the Young Progressive Citizens of America?

Mr. FEINGOLD. I do not know.

Senator DONNELL. Are you a Communist?

Mr. FEINGOLD. I am not a Communist.

Senator DONNELL. Where did you receive your education?

Mr. FEINGOLD. I received my education in New York City. I am a graduate of the College of the City of New York, a municipal college, and incidentally is my proof of the fact that Federal aid must be extended as well to higher education because without the municipal aid which I received from the city of New York, I would not have been able to receive a higher education.

Senator DONNELL. And where is your home in New York?
Mr. FEINGOLD. My home is New York City.

Senator DONNELL. And what is the street address?

Mr. FEINGOLD. It is 1975 Walton Avenue, the Bronx 53, New York.

Senator DONNELL. And your preliminary education was in what high school?

Mr. FEINGOLD. In James Monroe High School of the Bronx.
Senator DONNELL. And then where did you go?

Mr. FEINGOLD. I went to the College of the City of New York.
Senator DONNELL. And when did you finish in that school?
Mr. FEINGOLD. I graduated in 1946 from that school.

Senator DONNELL. Have you been connected with this Young Progressive Citizens of America ever since that time?

Mr. FEINGOLD. I believe since August 1946, with the predecessor organization, the Young Citizens Political Action Committee.

Senator DONNELL. The Young Citizens Political Action Committee. Now, the Young Progressive Citizens of America did not come into existence until August of 1946, is that right?

Mr. FEINGOLD. Young Progressive Citizens of America came into existence late in December at the time of the merged convention. It succeeded the Young Citizens Political Action Committee.

Senator DONNELL. Who are the officers of the Young Progressive Citizens of America?

Mr. FEINGOLD. The national honorary chairman of Young Progressive Citizens of America is Mr. Gene Kelly.

Senator DONNELL. Where does he live?

Mr. FEINGOLD. I believe his residence is in Hollywood, Calif.
Senator DONNELL. What is his business, do you know?

Mr. FEINGOLD. Movie actor. He is the honorary chairman. Senator DONNELL. Do you know anything about his political connections?

Mr. FEINGOLD. I cannot say; I do not know.

Senator AIKEN. He has been connected with the Navy pretty closely for the last 4 years, has he not, until he was discharged?

Mr. FEINGOLD. I think those political connections indicated political connections to the United States, if Senator Aiken is correct.

Senator DONNELL. That was not the question I asked you. I asked you if you knew his political affiliation.

Mr. FEINGOLD. I do not.

Senator DONNELL. And who is the acting chairman?

Mr. FEINGOLD. We do not have a chairman in title. We do have certain national officers other than chairman.

Senator DONNELL. Who is the principal one of those officers?
Mr. FEINGOLD. We have a national vice chairman.

Senator DONNELL. What is his name?

Mr. FEINGOLD. Michael Welsh.

Senator DONNELL. Where does he live?

Mr. FEINGOLD. Springfield, Mass., I believe.

Senator DONNELL. What is his business, if you know?

Mr. FEINGOLD. He is a student.

Senator DONNELL. A student in what institution?

Mr. FEINGOLD. I am sorry; I do not know.
Senator DONNELL. Do you know Mr. Welsh?

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Mr. FEINGOLD. Yes; I do.

Senator DONNELL. Now, he is the head officer, is that right?
Mr. FEINGOLD. That is right: vice chairman.

Senator DONNELL. That is under the honorary chairman; he is next in rank?

Mr. FEINGOLD. Correct.

Senator DONNELL. Who is the next officer in rank?

Mr. FEINGOLD. I am sorry; I do not believe we have any other officers of like stature nationally

Senator DONNELL. You are appearing today on behalf of the Young Progressive Citizens of America, is that correct?

Mr. FEINGOLD. That is correct.

Senator DONNELL. Has there been any poll taken by that organization in regard to any one of these bills pending before this committee? Mr. FEINGOLD. The Young Progressive Citizen of America at its founding convention indicated its support by delegated representatives of S. 2499, the Murray-Morse-Pepper General Education Act. They indicated their support of many of the proposals contained in the bills and adopted a program similar to the five-point program which I outlined to you today. That program was later brought back to the membership and the membership of the organization are heartily and unanimously in accord with that position?

Senator DONNELL. Every one of the entire 4,000?

Mr. FEINGOLD. So far as I know, the vast majority, certainly. I cannot speak for every member.

Senator DONNELL. I understood you to say, unanimous. understand the meaning of that term, do you not, Mr. Feingold? Mr. FEINGOLD. To the best of my knowledge, that is so.

You

Senator DONNELL. You say that this bill, 2499, was approved by the meeting, by some meeting, is that right?

Mr. FEINGOLD. That is right.

Senator DONNELL. And it took place in December of last year? Mr. FEINGOLD. That is correct.

Senator DONNELL. That was before this present Congress had convened?

Mr. FEINGOLD. That is correct.

Senator DONNELL. Therefore, before any of the bills now before this committee were introduced?

Mr. FEINGOLD. The bills now before this committee were discussed at a national executive board meeting of Young Progressive Citizens of America. They at that time indicated their prior support of certain principles which I have outlined to you and in accord with those principles have indicated their support of the measure introduced by Senator Aiken with certain qualifications.

Senator DONNELL. When did these bills that are now pending before the Eightieth Congress receive the consideration of this group to which you refer?

Mr. FEINGOLD. I am sorry; I do not recall the exact date. They were, however, after the introduction of S. 199 and Senator Taft's bill. Senator DONNELL. And what was the group that considered those bills?

Mr. FEINGOLD. The national executive board of the organization. Senator DONNELL. The national executive board of the Young Progressive Citizens of America?

Mr. FEINGOLD. That is correct.

Senator DONNELL. How large a group is the national executive board?

Mr. FEINGOLD. I believe approximately 50 young people were represented at that meeting.

Senator DONNELL. Approximately 50 were represented?,

Mr. FEINGOLD. Fifty young people were at the meeting.

Senator DONNELL. And they took up all these bills and discussea them, is that right?

Mr. FEINGOLD. Yes.

Senator DONNELL. In how long a session?

Mr. FEINGOLD. I do not think a lengthy session was held on the particular bills in view of the fact that the prior approval had been given of certain general proposals in view of the fact that the organization had previously indicated its support of certain types of Federal aid to education. The group felt there was no need for extended discussion at that time of the particular bills. That bill which came closest in terms of financial expenditures was Senator Aiken's bill; therefore, it receives our approval to that extent.

Senator AIKEN. That was because it offered the greatest degree of support?

Mr. FEINGOLD. That is correct.
Senator DONNELL. S. 472?

Mr. FEINGOLD. That is correct.

Senator DONNELL. Was that bill read in the meeting of the national executive board?

Mr. FEINGOLD. No; the bill itself was not read. The bill was read prior to that time by members of the organization as well as Senators Taft and Pepper being interviewed by representatives of the organization at that time.

Senator DONNELL. Was there a subcommittee that reported to the meeting of the national executive board?

Mr. FEINGOLD. That is correct.

Senator DONNELL. And acting on the recommendations of the subcommittee the national executive board has passed upon the bill and approved S. 472, is that right?

Mr. FEINGOLD. It did not approve the bill in toto but rather approved certain general objectives of the bill.

Senator DONNELL. Some general objectives of the bill but not the bill in toto. Has there been any bill approved in toto by your organization since the beginning of the Eightieth Congress?

Mr. FEINGOLD. No.

Senator DONNELL. Who finances Young Progressive Citizens of America?

Mr. FEINGOLD. The finances are obtained through Progressive Citizens of America.

Senator DONNELL. Do you know how large a membership they have?

Mr. FEINGOLD. I cannot speak with authority on that subject. Senator DONNELL. Do you devote all of your time to Young Progressive Citizens of America?

Mr. FEINGOLD. In large measure in recent months I have. Senator DONNELL. What is your business independent of that?

Mr. FEINGOLD. I do not have any business independently of that at the present time.

Senator DONNELL. A large proportion of your time is spent as legislative director, is that right?

Mr. FEINGOLD. Legislative director of the New York City chapter. Senator DONNELL. That is all.

Mr. FEINGOLD. Thank you, Senator.

Senator AIKEN. That completes the schedule for the day. The Chair understands there are one or two in the room who have prepared statements.

We will hear from Mrs. Rena Mannex O'Brien.

STATEMENT OF RENA MANNEX O'BRIEN, LOS ANGELES, CALIF.

Mrs. O'BRIEN. I am Rena Mannex O'Brien, of Los Angeles, Calif. I speak, in my individual capacity, as a citizen of the United States, and as a citizen of the State of California, interested in the preservation of human rights.

Personally, I am neither endorsing nor opposing any of the proposed bills now under consideration. However, in the course of these hearings certain witnesses have expressed opposition to the provisions or lack of provisions of one or more of these bills on the alleged ground that the American doctrine of separation of church and state is threatened with impairment.

The doctrine of separation of church and state was not created, as so many people erroneously believe, either by the original Federal Constitution or by the Bill of Rights, as set out in the first ten amendments. Separation of church and state has been a recognized principle of interchurch and state common law from the time of the Norman conquest in England. This doctrine, in its jurisdictional aspect, can be traced back over 700 years to the time of Bracton, author of what has been termed "the greatest treatise ever written on the common law." On exhibition in the library of the United States Supreme Court and designated as a monumental work of our common law is an early edition of Bracton, who first stated the doctrine of separation of church and state about the year 1240, in Latin, the then language of legal scholars, a free translation of which is as follows:

The State has exclusive jurisdiction over things temporal; the Church has exclusive jurisdiction over things spiritual.

There was no union of church and state in England in the thirteenth century, even though there was but one church. Bracton clearly sets forth that under interchurch and state common law in his time the church had jurisdiction over spiritual matters, while the state had exclusive jurisdiction over temporal matters. This, it is submitted, represents the true doctrine of separation of church and state..

The state, and this term includes the Federal Government, may advance education without encroaching upon the spiritual field of jurisdiction of the 250 more religious societies of this country. As examples of temporal matters of education, but not all-inclusive, are textbooks treating of arithmetic, geography, spelling, grammar, and the like; also, bus transportation to and from school. Over such temporal matters the State has jurisdiction and can legislate as to the provision of such textbooks and such transportation from funds raised by taxation.