with the auto industry we have been able to get gains that others have not been able to get. We receive our Blue Cross-Blue Shield paid for. We receive $5.25 of our medicare pay. We receive paidup insurance policies. We also have a prescription plan where we can buy our prescriptions for $1.17, no matter what the prescription costs, that is all it costs us. So we are in a little better financial position than a lot of other people, but we are now fast becoming with this ever increased cost of living, that we are getting run over through taxation through the increased costs of living and a lot of our people are now unable to maintain their homes. And when these people are not able to maintain their own home, they are not able to pay their taxes, then they are not able to go out and rent a decent place to live. So before too long they will be subject to welfare, so I think to give them some kind of relief while they are living in their homes would be far better than going out and costing the Government some $800, some $1,200, or $1,500 a year.

A lot of people are not taking into consideration what the overall costs could be to a few people on medicare in 1 year. If a man and wife had to go into the hospital the same year medicare costs alone could run them $370 before medicare took over. Five dollars and sixty cents per person, $50 on the doctor, which would amount to $100, and $68 of costs on entry into the hospital. That is a big item. And certainly people living on welfare, on social security, cannot meet these costs.

I can't go along with Mr. Nixon when he says he is going to raise medicare costs because he anticipates an increase in medical and hospital costs. Right there he is asking the hospitals and the doctors to increase their rates.

As far as the phase I and II program, I think it is the farce of the century. The only ones that are really tied down are the working people. There is no freeze on the very most essential thing that the retired people need and that's food. Meat and farm products are not under it. Anybody that has gone to the grocery store lately has found that meat has gone up 20, 25 cents a pound. In one of the stores that is a big locally owned chain that I trade with, round steak was $1.75 a pound. Who can afford to buy $1.75 a pound round steak or 89-cent a pound hamburger, a head of lettuce only on special occasions will cost you 39 to 49 cents, green beans are 39 cents a pound. They give big business a special writeup on new plants, new machinery, that is supposed to creat work. I have worked in the maintenance department of the general motors plant. I was a pipefitter. I know what big business does with their money. They buy something to put people out of work, they don't create jobs with their machinery, they cut jobs out. In the plant where I worked I saw this happen. That plant when I retired 6 years ago had 4,800 employees. Today, under manipulations, consolidations, they are now-at 3,250 we were making 55 jobs an hour 6 years ago now it is at 50 jobs an hour, they only have 3,250 people.

So really they allow our manufacturers to go up on their prices. In reality they just went up a dime. So if the Government can pass laws to give the big tax break for the big industries, depletion allowances for oil and gas, pretty nearly anything that you want to buy, anything that big business has anything to do with there is some kind of allowance. So I think that certainly on down the line that more thought should be given to give us retired people a break on our taxes. They give us a $50 deduction here and through other taxation they

put onto us we are probably paying a hundred dollars more, so we never catch up. So that's about all I can say.

I think the administration cost is real fantastic. The word survey is one thing that I cannot stand. There have been millions of dollars spent in surveys that there is never anything done about. I know that those of us working in retirement work, we have a new deal here in Kansas City that is certainly not favorable to us. We asked for some publicity on this homestead bill. They told brother Clay that they wrote an item on this thing a year ago. That is really an interest on the part of the news media when they can only extend us one writeup in a year's time.

This meeting right here. I think most of you saw the item in the paper. Where did they have it? They had it way over in the back of the paper. It was an item about this long. [Indicating.] You take ice hockey, stadiums, airports, and everything that costs the people is on the front page, or murder, rape. But to give us any kind, give the public any kind of information on our programs, we can't get it.

So finally, as has been said on this homestead bill, I would like for every one of you people to write a letter to the Senators and ask them to vote. Now, there are two bills that come up in the Senate, whichever comes up first, House Joint Resolution 80, that has already passed the House, or Senate Resolution 33.

I want to thank you, Senator, for allowing me to testify.

I hope you people get really interested because the only ones that are going to get interested in you are the people you elect. You have to vote for the right people. I think we have a good man in Senator Eagleton. I voted for him.

I am going to vote for you again.

Senator EAGLETON. Thank you very much, Mr. Lueking.

A VOICE. They ought to give their telephone number.
Senator EAGLETON. Yes.

While the microphone is being passed to Mr. Clay, I want to clarify for the record, Mr. Lueking wants letters to be sent, he is talking about the Missouri State senators in Jefferson City. If you don't know the name of your State senators, the UAW will certainly find out for

you.

On that question of writing there are other individuals who because of the time factor have not been scheduled as witnesses who do have things they want to bring to our attention, so we have prepared this form to be passed out to the audience. It has my full address. It says, "Dear Senator Eagleton." Call me "Dear."

"If there had been time for everyone to speak at the hearing on the Older American Act,' in Kansas City, Mo., on March 3, 1972, I would have said:" and you have a blank page. Tell us what is on your mind, tell us what comments you have, what suggestions you have, sign it, and give me your address and ZIP code. We will read these. I assure you I will read them. If you can't get all of your ideas on one page, write on the back. We will read them. We do want to hear from you.

These in a little while will be passed through the audience. In the meanwhile I will go back to Mr. Clay.

Mr. CLAY. Tom, I took advantage of you while you were out. I told them about the nice steak dinner you bought me in Washington. I wanted to thank you publicly. I enjoyed being with you.

Senator EAGLETON. I am usually known as a cheapskate.

Mr. CLAY. That isn't what I wanted to say. I wanted to ask a question. Do you know whether Kennedy and Griffith's national health bill will come up this year or not?

Senator EAGLETON. Probably not. National health insurance will probably be one of the key issues in the 1972 campaign. There will be some legislation probably enacted this year on health services, perhaps on catastrophic illness, catastrophic meaning a person of any age, say, that person is in a horrible car wreck who becomes bed fast for the rest of his or her entire life, that wipes out a family's entire savings or livelihood to care for that individual, or someone has a lingering illness that requires great expenses in hospitals for 1, 2, 3 years maybe. There may be some legislation on catastrophic illness but I doubt that the Kennedy-Griffith bill will pass this year.

Mr. CLAY. The reason I asked, Senator Kennedy spoke at our convention on this national health bill and this should concern all of you. I won't attempt to tell you what this bill will do. If it is ever passed or enacted, I think the Senator will have to agree with me it will be one of the greatest things that ever happened to our senior citizens, not only senior citizens but to every man, woman and child who are not able to afford health care today.

Thank you.

Senator EAGLETON. Thanks, Mr. Clay.

I would like to make one observation because it has cropped up in witnesses' testimony two or three times, Mr. Welty talked about it, Mr. Lueking talked about it, their question of administrative costs. You will recall Mr. Welty's testimony, he said that on one program in the AOA's planning for next year it will cost 400,000 to man and to administer and only 269,000 will get out to the people, which is grossly out of whack.

I failed to mention when I described the nutrition bill, S. 1163, that will soon become law, we specifically wrote into the bill that not more than 10 percent of the moneys appropriated to fund that bill can be used for administration. At least 90 percent had to get to the people.

Mr. LUEKING. Senator Eagleton, I would like to make a clarification here. I would like to say this, in all of our years in working for the underprivileged people, retired people, not one dollar has ever come out of any program the Government has had. We have financed our own program. We have a $1 voluntary due that we pay into the international union and our local unions and area chapters finance the balance of it. I would like to let you know this. We have nobody on the payroll. Everything we do is voluntary.

Thank you.

Senator EAGLETON. Some lady in the audience did ask how does someone who wants to help on this homestead exemption bill, how do they get hold of you?

Mr. LUEKING. My name is Gus Lueking. My telephone number is 358-6929.

I will do anything I can. I have a very sick wife I have to take care of, but I will be glad to give you any information I can. I know the other three members of this committee will do likewise.

Senator EAGLETON. Mr. Lueking's number, if I have it correct, is 358-6929. I understand your name is spelled L-u-k-i-n-g.

Mr. LUEKING. L-u-e-k-i-n-g.

Senator EAGLETON. I am sorry, and the first name is Gus?
Mr. LUEKING. Yes.

Senator EAGLETON. Who is the major

Mr. CLAY. I am chairman, but it doesn't make a bit of difference. Senator EAGLETON. Let's get Mr. Clay's phone number, too. He is the chairman.

Mr. BILL CLAY. What is your number?

Mr. CLAY. It doesn't make a particle of difference which one of us you contact because we are in harmony. We don't try to be a big shot. Senator EAGLETON. What is your number?

Mr. CLAY. Bill Clay, 452-6314.

Senator EAGLETON. 452-6314. That sounds like playing bingo.
Thank you, gentlemen, very much.

While you gentlemen from the UAW are departing, I can say this, and this is not just gilding the lily of all the organizations in this country I don't know of any labor organization that has devoted more of its attention, more of its resources and its interest than the UAW. Senator EAGLETON. We have one more panel, and this panel will be representative from various retirement organizations.

As these gentlemen are coming forward there is Mr. Spiegel, Mr. Vaughan, Mrs. Schoonover, Mrs. Buzby, Mr. Leslie, and Mr. Green. It looks like six witnesses. When they all get settled we still have them give their names for our reporter.

Reverend Dollar looks real lonely there, they have all deserted him. I will start at the far end. Would you please identify yourself and what organization you represent.

STATEMENT OF JACOB B. SPIEGEL, TOPEKA, KANS., VOLUNTEER MEMBER, NATIONAL LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL, N.R.T.A. AND A.A.R.P., ACCOMPANIED BY ALVIN D. VAUGHAN, MRS. ALBERT SCHOONOVER, MRS. CHRISTINE BUZBY, WALTER GREEN, AND E. C. LESLIE, PANEL REPRESENTING RETIREMENT ORGANIZATIONS

Mr. VAUGHAN. I am Alvin D. Vaughan. I represent the old age group of the city, the Westport-Roanoke Golden Age Club. Senator EAGLETON. Ma'am.

Mrs. SCHOONOVER. I am Jenny Schoonover, Mrs. Albert Schoonover. I represent A.A.R.P., which means American Association of Retired Persons.

Senator EAGLETON. All right.

Next.

Mrs. BUZBY. I am Mrs. Christine Buzby. I am a retired teacher. I live at Vista Del Rio, in an apartment there, the retired teachers bill. Don't downgrade too much living in numbers. Personally it reminds me of the old dormitory days at K.Ü. We had a lot of boys living there,

too.

Taxes have made it kind of a problem for us and prices for our regular monthly expenses have gone up. Our original endowment fees haven't gone up any. Anybody who wants to live in a nice place come down and see us.

T-229 - 72 - 8

Mr. LESLIE. E. C. Leslie, president of Local Chapter 20, National Federation of Retired Federal Employees.

Senator EAGLETON. Thank you.

Mr. SPIEGEL. Jacob B. Spiegel, Topeka, Kans., volunteer member of the national legislative council, N.R.T.A. and A.A.R.P.

Senator EAGLETON. For those who may not know what those letters signify, will you tell us what they do signify for the record?

Mr. SPIEGEL. There are two organizations that are combined, the National Retired Teachers Association and the American Association of Retired Persons.

Senator EAGLETON. The first name is Jacob.

Mr. GREEN. I am Walter Green. I am a representative of the National Council of Senior Citizens. I am also a member of the A.A.R.P. Senator EAGLETON. Very good.

Mr. GREEN. It is a good organization.

Senator EAGLETON. It is my understanding that Mr. Spiegel will lead off as sort of the spokesman.

Mr. SPIEGEL. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, we deeply appreciate this opportunity to appear before you today on behalf of more than 32 million members of our associations.

The N.R.T.A. and A.A.R.P. seeks the establishment of a national philosophy of aging and the development of a national strategy to carry out programs affecting older Americans. A quality life for older persons is predicted on the development and implementation of effective programs to provide older persons services and to provide older persons with opportunities for service to others. We are extremely pleased that your committee is taking time to review the record of the Administration on Aging and to recommend new directions in programs for the elderly.

Many of us had hoped that the creation of the Administration on Aging in 1965 would provide a coordinated assault on the problems encountered by older Americans. Unfortunately, lack of authority, funding, leadership, and executive and congressional support has weakened this agency. This session of the 92d Congress, relying upon the recommendations your committee will make, has the opportunity to strengthen the Administration on Aging, to upgrade its status, and strengthen its programs. We are confident that this committee can and will provide the leadership, vision, and creativity necessary to provide quality amendments to the Older Americans Act of 1965.

I wish to make this quotation from the testimony that Mr. Bernard E. Nash, executive director of the National Retired Teachers Association-American Association of Retired Persons, made on October 1, 1971, while testifying on this subject:

Most older people hope for an opportunity to remain participating, self-sustaining, and respected individuals. Our society must provide a framework for the participation and independence of the older person. In old age, as in all ages. life should be filled with hope, confidence, and freedom to act. The development of an effective strategy for enabling the aging to grow, instead of merely growing old is a necessity.

The National Retired Teachers Association and the American Association of Retired Persons call for the Administration on Aging to be located within the Office of the Secretary of Health, Education, and Welfare and headed by a person designated an assistant secretary and