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the president of the AMA, and to the head of the drug council, Dr. Hayes, and they can bring Dr. Annis along with them. We will hear them all in 1 or 2 days. This has been my posture from the beginning. To leave the impression I have not been offering the change to these people to appear is not correct. For them to say that they want Dr. Annis, otherwise they won't come and that I am unfair is a lot of nonsense. I think the committee ought to have something to say about who they ask to come, too. If the AMA wants to bring Dr. Annis or a dozen other people, we are perfectly willing to hear them. But to say that we have been unfair about this I think is quite preposterous. And you have repeated this kind of statement in Montreal, Canada.

There is loads of this material, Mr. Stetler. I have a TV transcript, “Interview with Joseph Stetler. Interviewed by Steward Finley."

Mr. Finley asked you:
Has the pharmaceutical industry been asked to testify yet?

No; we have not been asked as yet. We are assured by Senator Nelson that we will have that opportunity, but we have not had it yet. Some of the issues that have developed in the hearings to date are medical in nature. We understand that some qualified physicians of medical organizations have asked for the opportunity to testify. We are hopeful they will have that chance soon.

What date was that TV script?

Mr. STETLER It has been a couple of months ago. I am not sure of the date.

Senator NELSON. That was after you had been in my office and been assured you would have a chance. It is after I invited the whole industry to come one by one; is it not?

Mr. STETLER. It is also after I wrote about three or four letters trying to pin down specific dates, letters to which I never received a response.

Senator NELSON. We are going to put this all in the record. But the fact of the matter is that you did not write a letter until you made all kinds of speeches saying I did not let you appear.

This was after weeks has passed subsequent to the conference in

my office.

Mr. STETLER. Senator, I wrote to you early in June, before that statement was ever made.

Senator NELSON. Do you have the date of that TV script? Mr. STETLER. I do not have it right here; I could supply it. I think it was probably in August. I would have to check that.

Senator NELSON. And then there was a radio script at the same time.

Would you mind telling the committee where you distributed this TV spot and the radio script?

Mr. STETLER. That was distributed to 100 TV stations around the United States.

Senator NELSON. How many in the State of Wisconsin?
Mr. STETLER. Probably one, but I do not know for sure.

Senator NELSON. Would you give me a list of the stations, radio and TV, that it was distributed to ?

Mr. STETLER. It went to 100 TV stations and 200 radio stations. I will be glad to supply that list.

Senator NELSON. I would like to have you supply the list of radio and TV stations to which the statement was sent, as well as the date on which it was made.

Mr. STETLER. Right. (The information referred to, subsequently received, follows:)

RADIO STATIONS TO WHICH TAPED INTERVIEW FEATURING C. JOSEPH STETLER

WERE MAILED, JUNE 5, 1967 WATM, Atmore, Ala.

KPOI, Honolulu, Hawaii WAPI, Birmingham, Ala.

KUPI, Idaho Falls, Idaho WBIB, Centreville, Ala.

KAIN, Nampa, Idaho WHOS, Decatur, Ala.

WCAZ, Carthage, Ill. WWWF, Fayette, Ala.

WAAF, Chicago, Ill. WAAX, Gadsden, Ala.

WDQN, Du Quoin, Ill. WERH, Hamilton, Ala.

WRMN, Elgin, Ill. WLCB, Moulton, Ala.

WMIX, Mount Vernon, Ill. WFEB, Sylacauga, Ala.

WCMY, Ottawa, Ill. KCAM, Glenallen, Alaska

WIRL, Peoria, Ill. KAPR, Douglas, Ariz.

WIZZ, Streator, Ill. KFIF, Tucson, Ariz.

WCSI, Columbus, Ind. KJWH, Camden, Ark.

WCMR, Elkhart, Ind. KCCB, Corning, Ark.

WROZ, Evansville, Ind. KMAG, Fort Smith, Ark.

WASK, Lafayette, Ind. KOSY, Texarkana, Ark.

WJCD, Seymour, Ind. KIBS, Bishop, Calif.

WGVA, South Bend, Ind. KBMX, Coalinga, Calif.

KSO, Des Moines, Iowa KRDU, Dinuba, Calif.

KMAN, Manhattan, Kans. KOAD, Lemore, Calif.

KULY, Ulysses, Kans. KFWB, Los Angeles, Calif.

WHBN, Harrodsburg, Ky. KGOL, Palm Desert, Calif.

WKIC, Hazard, Ky. KIBE, Palo Alto, Calif.

WMTL, Leitchfield, Ky. KRLA, Pasadena, Calif.

WPHN, Liberty, Ky. KLOA, Ridgecrest, Calif.

WNVL, Nicholasville, Ky. KCBQ, San Diego, Calif.

KCIL, Houma, La. KWIZ, Santa Ana, Calif.

KXKW, Lafayette, La. KSUE, Susanville, Calif.

WBME, Belfast, Maine KOMY, Watsonville, Calif.

WLKN, Lincoln, Maine KSYC, Yreka, Calif.

WFBR, Baltimore, Md. KGIW, Alamosa, Colo.

WNAC, Boston, Mass. KVFC, Cortez, Colo.

WHAV, Haverhill, Mass. KAVI, Rocky Ford, Colo.

WMRC, Milford, Mass. KGEK, Sterling, Colo.

WBRK, Pittsfield, Mass. WLAD, Danbury, Conn.

WAAB, Worcester, Mass. WSUB, Groton, Conn.

WABX, Detroit, Mich. WLIS, Old Saybrook, Conn.

WFDF, Flint, Mich. WSTC, Stamford, Conn.

WCSR, Hillsdale, Mich. WTOR, Torrington, Conn.

WJBL, Holland, Mich. WILI, Willimantic, Conn.

WJPD, Ishpeming, Mich. WEHW, Windsor, Conn.

WKLZ, Kalamazoo, Mich. WZEP, Defuniak Springs, Fla.

WJPW, Rockford, Mich. WFBF, Fernandina Beach, Fla.

KDHL, Faribault, Minn. WYSE, Inverness, Fla.

KDWA, Hastings, Minn. WFFG, Marathon, Fla.

KLFD, Litchfield, Minn. WPCF, Panama City, Fla.

KYSM, Mankato, Minn. WSCM, Pamana City, Fla.

KCUE, Red Wing, Minn. WTRR, Sanford, Fla.

WHNY, McComb, Miss. WALT, Tampa, Fla.

KFVS, Cape Girardeau, Mo. WQXI, Atlanta, Ga.

KDFA, Doniphan, Mo. WBBK, Blakely, Ga.

KHMO, Hannibal, Mo. WDYX, Buford, Ga.

WMBH, Joplin, Mo. WGAA, Cedartown, Ga.

KQYX, Joplin, Mo. WTTI, Dalton, Ga.

KCMK, Kansas City, Mo. WDGL, Douglasville, Ga.

KFUO, St. Louis, Mo. WSGC, Elberton, Ga.

KDRO, Sedalia, Mo. WBHB, Fitzgerald, Ga.

KALM, Tahyer, Mo. WVOH, Hazelhurst, Ga.

KWRE, Warrenton, Mo. WLOP, Jessup, Ga.

KGVW, Belgrade, Mont. WLFA, Lafayette, Ga.

KBMN, Bozeman, Mont. WSNT, Sandersville, Ga.

KLTZ, Glasgow, Mont. Ć WPAX, Thomasville, Ga.

KUDI, Great Falls, Mont. WACL, Waycross, Ga.

KGEZ, Kalispell, Mont.

RADIO STATIONS TO WHICH TAPED INTERVIEW FEATURING C. JOSEPH STETLEB

WERE MAILED, JUNE 5. 1967—Continued WJAG, Norfolk, Nebr.

WATS, Sayre, Pa. KNEV, Reno, Nev.

WMBT, Shenandoah, Pa. KWNA, Winnemucca, Nev.

WANB, Waynesburg, Pa. WRAN, Dover, N.J.

WHIM, Providence, R.I. KRAC, Almagordo, N. Mex.

WERI, Westerly, R.I. KSRC, Socorro, N. Mex.

WCOS, Columbia, S.Ç. WKSN, Jamestown, N.Y.

WFIS, Fountain Inn, S.C. WICY, Malone, N.Y.

WTND, Orangeburg, S.C. WHN, New York, N.Y.

WBBR, Travelers Rest, S.C. WIRY, Plattsburgh, N.Y.

WGOG, Walhalla, S.C. WAPC, Riverhead, N.Y.

KNWC, Sioux Falls, S.Dak. WKJK, Granite Falls, N.C.

WOPI, Bristol, Tenn. WDSL, Mocksville, N.C.

WJJM, Lewisburg, Tenn. WPAQ, Mount Airy, N.C.

KBOX, Dallas, Tex. WKRK, Murphy, N.C.

KWRD, Henderson, Tex. WRNB, New Bern, N.C.

KBNO, Houston, Tex. WYNA, Raleigh, N.C.

KGVL, Port Lavaca, Tex. WNCA, Siler City, N.C.

KTEO, San Angelo, Tex. WMFD, Wilmington, N.C.

KWTX, Waco, Tex. WGTM, Wilson, N.C.

WFLS, Fredericksburg, Va. WKRC, Cincinnati, Ohio

WDDY, Gloucester, Va. WMNI, Cleveland, Ohio

WRGM, Richmond, Va. WWOW, Conneaut, Ohio

WEER, Warrenton, Va. WTIG, Massillon, Ohio

WHWB, Rutland, Vt. KGYN, Guymon, Okla.

KAPS, Mount Vernon, Wash. KTMC, McAlester, Okla.

KONP, Port Angeles, Wash. KLCO, Poteau, Okla.

KGDN, Seattle, Wash. KGFF, Shawnee, Okla.

KDNC, Spokane, Wash. KROW, Dallas, Oreg.

WBOY, Clarksburg, W. Va. KWVR, Enterprise, Oreg.

WTCS, Fairmont, W.Va. KTIX, Pendleton, Oreg.

WTAP, Parkersburg, W. Va.. KPRB, Redmond, Oreg.

WHLL, Wheeling, W. Va. WAEB, Allentown, Pa.

WHBY, Appleton, Wis. WISR, Butler, Pa.

WRJC, Mauston, Wis. WWGO, Erie, Pa.

WEMP, Milwaukee, Wis. WHUN, Huntingdon, Pa.

WIBU, Poynette, Wis. WDAS, Philadelphia, Pa.

KMER, Kemmerer, Wyo.

TV STATIONS TO WHICH FILMED INTERVIEW FEATURING C. JOSEPH STETLER

WERE MAILED, JUNE 5, 1967 WBRC-TV, Birmingham, Ala.

KRDO-TV, Colorado Springs, Colo. WMSL-TV, Decatur, Ala.

KREZ-TV, Durango, Colo. WTVY-TV, Dothan, Ala.

KREX-TV, Grand Junction, Colo. WOWL-TV, Florence, Ala.

KTVS, Sterling, Colo. WAAY-TV, Huntsville, Ala.

WHNB-TV, W. Hartford, Conn. WKAB-TV, Montgomery, Ala.

WTTG-TV, Washington, D.C. WSLA-TV, Selma, Ala.

WINK-TV, Fort Myers, Fla. KPHO-TV, Phoenix, Ariz.

WLBW-TV, Miami, Fla. KOLD-TV, Tucson, Ariz.

WFTV, Orlando, Fla. KBLU-TV, Yuma, Ariz.

WJHG, Panama City, Fla. KFSA-TV, Fort Smith, Ark.

WCTV, Tallahassee, Fla. KATV, Little Rock, Ark.

WPTV, West Palm Beach, Fla. KERO-TV, Bakersfield, Calif.

WALB-TV, Albany, Ga. WHSL-TV, Chico, Calif.

WMAZ-TV, Macon, Ga. WCFT-TV, Concord, Calif.

WTOC-TV, Savannah, Ga. KIEM-TV, Eureka, Calif.

KTVB-TV, Boise, Idaho KJEO-TV, Fresno, Calif.

KID-TV, Idaho Falls, Idaho KCET-TV, Los Angeles, Calif.

WCHU-TV, Champaign, Ill. KSBW-TV, Salinas, Calif.

WCIU-TV, Chicago, Ill. KAAR-TV, San Diego, Calif.

WTVP-TV, Decatur, Ill. KSBY-TV, San Luis Obispo, Calif. WIRL-TV, Peoria, Ill. KEYT-TV, Santa Barbara, Calif.

WREX-TV, Rockford, Ill.

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TV STATIONS TO WHICH FILMED INTERVIEW FEATURING C. JOSEPH STETLER

WERE MAILED, JUNE 5. 1967—Continued WSJV-TV, Elkhart, Ind.

WKZO-TV, Kalamazoo, Mich. WHET-TV, Evansville, Ind.

WJIM-TV, Lansing, Mich. WPTA-TV, Fort Wayne, Ind.

WWTV, Traverse City, Mich. WLWI-TV, Indianapolis, Ind.

KMBC-TV, Kansas City, Mo. WFAM-TV, Lafayette, Ind.

KTVI-TV, St. Louis, Mo. WLBC-TV, Muncie, Ind.

KBIM-TV, Roswell, N. Mex. KVFD-TV, Fort Dodge, Iowa

WBEN-TV, Buffalo, N.Y. KTVO-TV, Ottumwa, Iowa

WROC-TV, Rochester, N.Y. KTIV-TV, Sioux City, Iowa

KOLN-TV, Lincoln, Nebr. KWWL-TV, Waterloo, Iowa

WYNE-TV, Omaha, Nebr. KAYS-TV, Hays, Kans.

WRAL-TV, Raleigh, N.C. KSLN-TV, Salina, Kans.

WCPO-TV, Cincinnati, Ohio KAKE-TV, Wichita, Kans.

WEWS-TV, Cleveland, Ohio WLTV, Bowling Green, Ky.

WBNS-TV, Columbus, Ohio WKYT-TV, Lexington, Ky.

KATV, Portland, Oreg. KALB-TV, Alexandria, La.

WIBF-TV, Jenkintown, Pa. (Phila.) KATC-TV, Lafayette, La.

WRCB-TV, Chattanooga, Tenn. KPLC-TV, Lake Charles, La.

KRLD-TV, Dallas, Tex. WVUE-TV, New Orleans, La.

KHOU-TV, Galveston, Tex. KTBS-TV, Shreveport, La.

WLVA-TV, Lynchburg, Va. WABI-TV, Bangor, Maine.

WTVR, Richmond, Va. WAGM-TV, Presque Isle, Maine

KXLY-TV, Spokane, Wash. WJZ-TV, Baltimore, Md.

WEAU-TV, Eau Claire, Wis. WBOC-TV, Salisbury, Md.

WBAY-TV, Green Bay, Wis. WGBH-TV, Boston, Mass.

WISC-TV, Madison, Wis. WHYN-TV, Springfield, Mass.

WISN-TV, Milwaukee, Wis. WTVS-TV, Detroit, Mich.

WSAU-TV, Wausau, Wis. WJRT-TV, Flint, Mich.

WHTN-TV, Huntington, W. Va. Senator NELSON. Let us look at a statement of yours made at the annual meeting of the National Association of Retail Druggists, November 1, 1967, Houston, Tex., just a few days ago:

I cannot emphasize too strongly the significance of the Nelson hearings as they stand today, not only to drug manufacturers, but to the health professions and the public as well. If, as is now the case, the final record of the Nelson hearings is filled with distorted and biased material, it could eventually become the foundation for ill-conceived legislation such as I have just described. The record should and must be straight in the public interest.

You say "filled with distorted and biased material.” I want to go through the witness list with you witness by witness, and find out what parts are distorted and biased.

You refer to people like Dr. Modell?
Mr. STETLER. No; I refer to the first witness, for one, Mr. Haddad.

Senator NELSON. I guess the committee would concede that he was not on your side.

Mr. STETLER. Not only not on our side; I do not think he was on anybody's side with some of the material that went in the record.

Senator NELSON. You could have had an industry witness on the stand at any time afterward to refute him, and you can do it today. I have no defense of anything any witness says here. They have to stand on their own.

Mr. STETLER. Senator, I want to say the comments made were not directed at you, but to the testimony that went in. I happen to think some of the testimony that went in, and we can document—some that went in was not proper, not fair—not because the witnesses were not on our side. But the main issue again I have tried to make is that certain groups that have not been heard should be heard, because only

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one side has been heard to date. I just make that point. I think it is a simple point. If you say that the Academy and the AMA and these other people are going to be heard, I think the other side will be heard.

Senator NELSON. Well, why didn't you tell the druggists, at the meeting of the National Association of Retail Druggists that I have repeatedly stated that every single valid viewpoint would be appropriately represented? We cannot hold the hearing in the stadium and have everybody speak at once. What you are arguing about is the order in which they have been heard. The point I want to make clear to the public is that this chairman has said from the first day that we will hear every single member of your association and every drug manufacturer in America. And they did not come. I cannot help that. But to leave the impression that the hearings have been filled with distortion and bias, when your own members refused to come is preposterous. And when I asked a half dozen of their representatives, “When would you like to come?" they said, “Senator, we do not want to come.” You know that as well as I do.

Mr. STETLER. Senator, they have said they would like to have the PMA present the case for them. And we are happy to be here today to have that chance.

Senator Nelson. Mr. Stetler, I am happy to have you here today, but on the first page you say, "I am not of course in a position to answer charges or questions addressed to any particular company." Mr. STETLER. That is right against any particular company. But

the charges and the issues before this committee are much broader than that.

We are prepared with six men here, all highly trained in their field, to tell you in some considerable detail about the major issues that have been raised in the hearings.

Senator NELSON. We are glad to have you. But my point is that we had particular companies first because we had particular issues we wanted to raise. And, furthermore we were willing to hear these companies on all the general issues as well. Every one of your major companies has people who are prepared to discuss all the issues affecting that company, or the industry as a whole.

Mr. STETLER. It would have been a complete waste of your time to bring in 136 companies. We can do it if we have the chance today to present this testimony.

Senator NELSON. You did not even want to bring in any of them really. We have had an open invitation since last May, and yet you are complaining that the viewpoint of the industry has not been heard. You are not the industry. You are a hired representative of the industry. You represent the firms who account for 95 percent of the production in the industry, as I understand it. But the people who manufacture the drugs and their scientists, their chemists, their pharma-cologists, their researchers, their business managers, their presidents, are in the companies you represent. Nobody in the world can speak better for the industry than these distinguished people.

You have left the impression all over this country—the implication is perfectly clear in your speeches—that this committee, meaning Senator Nelson, has loaded the record with biased material. You would

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