However, since that period of time there have been-the refugees have been exercising one of this country's most precious rights, and that's the right of movement, and so as a consequence of this, and because of Fresno's agricultural base, we now have upwards of 21,000 refugees in this area. This has severely impacted our resources, and along with this the kind of problems or kind of concerns that they are bringing, Fresno does not have the resources to deal with. This is a long-term solution at best, to say the least. We're not only talking about lack of skills, we're talking about language, we're talking about academic or educational achivement to a level where one can begin to start training. So this is some of the kinds of concerns that the Fresno Private Industry Council has, and as I indicated, these kind of concerns are echoed throughout the nation. We're not asking that we target special groups, but provide the kind of waiver and the kinds of funds that are necessary for the local SDA's to carry out these programs. I thank the committee for the opportunity to present some of our concerns. Mr. MARTINEZ. Thank you, Mr. Slade. Mr. CLARK. Mr. Chairman, could you consider excusing me, sir? I was trying to do some things at the office before noon, and Mr. Ramos, the president of our council, is here and can answer any questions about programs in L.A. City. If there's something that I could help with, I will stay. Mr. MARTINEZ. All right. Let me ask the members. Mr. CLARK. I'd appreciate it very much. Mr. MARTINEZ. As soon as Bill's questions are asked you can be excused, and then Mr. Ramos can take your place should there be any further need for it. Mr. CLARK. Thank you. Mr. MARTINEZ. Charlie. Mr. HAYES. I don't have anything. The testimony speaks for itself. Senator GREENE. I had one. Mr. Clark, you come from the private sector. Mr. CLARK. Yes. Senator GREENE. You mentioned two programs. What else—this is my first opportunity to-I now see-from hearing your comments, I am putting together the base of my oversight hearing. But I'm concerned about what the private sector is doing. Now, you indicated that you had TransAmerica in a program, Broadway and what have you, and very frankly I, you know, I'm from L.A. Gus Hawkins and I talk about this all the time. But we have a very-we have a little difficulty in finding out what you're doing. So I'm sure you have more than two programs, Broadway_and what have you. Your comments weren't too informative. They weren't too detailed. You talk very broadly, but you didn't really talk about specifics. So could you enlighten us a bit, maybe kind of give us at least a category understanding and something about numbers and, you know, what the private sector is doing, because, you know, we finally moved to the point where it took us a long time to get here, but we now have the private sector there? We expect a great deal out of the private sector, but I don't mean this as a criticism, but I frankly am disappointed that the private sector is not coming forward and does not seem to be providing leadership. In fact, much of the language is beginning to sound like the language we've heard all of our lives from bureaucrats. And I'm not being personal or it isn't meant in a niggling way. It very honestly is a question for information, because I sit in the State legislature and I don't see it. I deal with your associations in Sacramento, and they say what you're doing, but I don't see evidence of it up and down the State. Mr. CLARK. Thank you, Senator. I think we're loaded for bear for you today. If not me, certainly Mr. Bruce from the city, who will be testifying, and Mr. Ramos, our president, who comes from Great Western Financial, another major corporation. I did mention a third company, Northrop, and I'll mention it again, since they pay me, and I probably ought to do that. But I just touched on those, Senator, because I was Senator GREENE. Well, what is Northrop doing? Mr. CLARK. We've had a number of programs at both our Ventura Division, to be specific, and our major division in Los Angeles. Senator, we do a variety of things in a corporation of our size, many on our own, partly because of who we are and partly because we wish to participate in these programs. When I say who we are, we happen to be a defense company. Senator GREENE. Well, I know who you are. I'm trying to get you to say what Mr. CLARK. Well, all right. What we're doing right now is initiating a program with a consortium of SDA's in the South Bay area, Inglewood, Hawthorne, Lynnwood, Redondo Beach, where we are taking people into our plant on on-the-job training programs, in a fairly broad gamut of occupations in our corporation. Senator GREENE. Such as? Mr. CLARK. Obviously, clerical. Some degree of engineering support. We have participated for years in the Urban League's computer program, and we bring those people into our plant, and that of course is a JTPA-funded program. Senator GREENE. Yes, but that's pretty small. I know about that one. Mr. CLARK. That's a good program. It brings quite a few people in. Senator GREENE. Yes, but it's small. Mr. CLARK. It's small. We have participated with TRW on a joint guard training program. We are-oh, Lord, you know, I have trouble with all these classifications. Mr. MARTINEZ. Let me interject and try to help you out. Not very long ago in Washington representatives from your company and several of the people you mentioned in that consortium came forward to many Congressmen with a bill that really outlined what you're talking about, the same programs that you were going into in conjunction with high schools and colleges. Is that not it? Mr. CLARK. Oh, absolutely. I was staying with JTPA programs. Mr. MARTINEZ. I would ask you to submit for our records that pamphlet again. I know you must still have them available. Mr. CLARK. Certainly. This Mr. MARTINEZ. This is to be sent to Senator Bill Greene. Mr. CLARK. Be happy to. Mr. MARTINEZ. Therefore he will be able to see that kind of program. Mr. CLARK. Yes, sir. Mr. MARTINEZ. Would you do that? Mr. CLARK. I certainly will, and I don't believe it's off the subject too much, but along with many other companies of our ilk, the socalled high-tech companies, we're doing a lot these days in education at the lower grades to try and catch these kids and motivate them to stay with the more difficult subjects, because they'll get good jobs. We're training science teachers to know a little bit more about science so they can motivate their kids. We're doing a lot of this now, and even more of it. So I will get that material in. Senator GREENE. Well, sir, please understand me. Mr. CLARK. I understand. Senator GREENE. It's strictly a question of information. And as I said, my Congressman hasn't been able to answer the question, so we're really looking around. We have not dug around ourselves. Mr. CLARK. Yes. Senator GREENE. We will be soon, but I don't find a minimal amount of evidence that you exist, and I'm from Los Angeles. Your activity in my area, which is Gus Hawkins' area, isn't felt. Mr. CLARK. Well, maybe we're too modest. We'll send some information there. Thank you. Mr. MARTINEZ. Thank you, Mr. Clark. Would Mr. Ramos take your place, then? Mr. CLARK. Thank you very much, gentlemen. Mr. MARTINEZ. While we're taking a short break I want to make an apology again. We have a representative from Gus Hawkins' office, Carole Schanzer. I'm sorry. I'm pleased to have seen you around. You blended in. [Laughter.] Yes, I thought you were one of the staff. Maybe I'll take the opportunity and introduce two of my staff, Genevieve Galbreath sitting up here. She's from Washington, from our subcommittee staff, and Eric Jensen. He is the staff director of the Subcommittee on Employment Opportunities. Let me try this again, Zoolalian? Mr. MARTINEZ. That's good? STATEMENT OF EDWARD ZOOLALIAN, FORMER MONROVIA CITY COUNCILMAN, CHAIRMAN, FOOTHILL PRIVATE INDUSTRY COUNCIL Mr. ZOOLALIAN. Mr. Chairman, my name is Ed Zoolalian, and ladies and gentlemen, I want to thank you for this opportunity. I have no prepared statement, and I will be speaking from notes, and I think it's important to talk a little bit about my background. I have no prior exposure or experience in CETA programs. I have an engineering degree from MIT and an MBA from USC, and in 1979 I ran for the city council of the city of Monrovia, and served for 5 years. In 1983, at that time under CETA the city of Monrovia was a prime sponsor working with the Los Angeles County. In 1983 we started talking about the JTPA Program. We thought generally that "Why don't we form a consortium with six cities in the local area and form our own SDA?" And at that time the Monrovia Council was part of the program to convince the State, and we were successful, so the six cities of South Pasadena, Pasadena, Arcadia, Sierra Madre, Monrovia, and Duarte, all Foothills cities, formed their own SDA. The city of Pasadena does our administration. I think we've had some wins, and I'm going to share with you some of my problems. And I'm sort of speaking as a private-sector person. We've got a very active PIC. The way I read the charter of the PIC is for the first time Congress and the President said: OK, you private-sector guys, the ball's in your court. You've been bitching about the bureaucracy all these years, see what you guys can do, and gals. And that's the way I've sort of been reading it, and in, let's see, 1984, when I stepped down from the city council, mayor pro tem, I somehow got assigned as a privacy council representative from the city of Monrovia, and have been serving as PIC chair since then. I just want to say that the way we set up the policy board of the six cities, each city has a city council member representing the policy boards, and then we have the PIC. We work together very well, I think. I think part of the reason is that we keep each other very much informed. I make it a point myself as PIC chair to attend all the policy board meetings. They meet only about four, six times a year, but they are informed, and so they don't get some anti feelings of what's going on. I felt that the coordination is very good. I enjoy the flexibility we have. We've set up some programs. We've had an ongoing program called the skills centers located at the Pasadena City College. Monrovia Unified Schools have had their own college. We're growing out almost on a bid process. It may call for a performance-based contract and what have you. The way I look at it is in the old days, they taught for the sake of teaching. The game's changed there right now. If you're going to get a contract to teach some people some skills, then you have to not only share in the burden of recruitment, of getting qualified people, but you must also share in the responsibility of placement, because they have their own set of networks which we as-even in our administration might not have. And there was some resistance in the beginning, specially with the public schools and public city college type things, but I think it's starting to jell, and they're starting to accept us. As far as the philosophy is well, you know, you will hold back payment, 10, 20 percent until the people have been placed for at least 30 days. The type of trades we're talking about, I work with NEF Instrument Corp. and I've been there for 18 years. We're manufacturing electronic data acquisition systems, the Manufacturing Manager there, and we have about 80, 90 people. And frankly, before this program came to light, if I hadn't been involved in the city council stuff when somebody came to me about another Government program, I probably would have turned a deaf ear. But being involved with it in the public sector, I at least was able to understand it, and frankly pick up about 10 people in the electronic assembly area. I'm really pushing that from a skill status standpoint. Obviously we're not training displaced people from tuna carriers. We don't have that in our area. We have a pretty good level of technical service type employment in the Foothill area. In the beginning, my gut feeling was telling me there's not a problem with jobs, the problem seems to be getting people into the system. And now a year and a half later I can say that's no more gut feeling, it's fact. We are having a serious problem getting qualified people into the-it's like a manufacturing process, the way I look at it. We have to get people into the system, train, some will fall out and the ones come out hopefully will get employees in the private sector, and hopefully a year from now they're still in some type of private sector job. In answering questions why are we having trouble, you know, we got a very extensive marketing program, some really-people like Parsons and Jacobs are representing the Pasadena area, bus stops, churches, community based operations. And there seems to be a very heavy fallout when people come in through for the interview process, and I'm not sure what the income problems are. You can say well, 10 percent of the people have a bad attitude when they realize they don't get paid. They're not interested, and that may be part of it, OK. But it's a really serious problem. We have jobs in the San Gabriel Valley. My company, as small as we are, have nothing-we don't get enough assemblers through the skill center. We got to advertise in the open market and get them in. A real problem. Now, that ties in-this is probably blasphemy— in terms of should we be asking for more money, same money or less money? And I guess I'm saying if the criteria we have now is such that we cannot get enough people in our system, then maybe we don't need all the money we're getting. My staff's not here today, but they'll hear about this, I'm sure. Mr. Specifically we have trained people in electronic assembly, we have contracts on truck driving, contracts on clerical skills. One of the schools-we went out and bought three word processors. My philosophy is we're here to help the economically displaced person, or disadvantaged person, OK? You-had a job and make a word processing person out of him. You take him off the street, you teach him how to get the work, you teach him clerical skills how to type. Then some of those people that are now working in the private sector all alone, in the evening, will go out and get the additional skills which allow them to go through the word process system. It's a-philosophical problem, and that's the way I see it, and that's the way we're trying to lead the PIC. And so far we're going along with it. Exciting. Several recommendations. Under the Targeted Job Tax Credit Program, which is due to expire by the end of this year, it's very important to main |