recomend that the phrase "preferably veterans" be stricken from section 602 and there be inserted in lieu thereof the phrase "who shall be war veterans." I only touched on these things lightly because I have here today, and I am putting it in the record, the names of the advisers and counselors we had here from the lending agencies. You have the list of names, and I hope, Mr. Chairman, and gentlemen of the committee, you will call upon them to explain just what these paragraphs and sections mean. (The list referred to is as follows:) Allen, W. B., Continental Illinois National Bank, Chicago, Ill. Anderson, H. Loy, Mortgage Bankers Association of America, 812 Tower Building, Auer, Edward D., Lincoln National Life Insurance Co., Fort Wayne, Ind. Bodfish, Morton, exectutive vice president, United States Savings and Loan Braman, Harold P., National Savings and Loan League, 1835 K Street NW., Washington, D. C. Brott, J. O., 719 Fifteenth Street NW., Washington, D. C. (American Bankers Association). Brown, A. G., American Bankers Association, 22 East Fortieth Street, New York City. Davies, Phil S., the San Francisco Bank, 526 California Street, San Francisco, Calif. Eason, George M., National Savings and Loan League, 735 South Olive Street, Los Angeles, Calif. Ferguson, Abner, United States Savings and Loan League, Washington, D. C. Fisher, Ernest M., American Bankers Association, 22 East Fortieth Street, New York, N. Y. Gunderson, Carrol, American Bankers Association, 105 West Adams Street, Chicago, Ill. Hall, William B., the Detroit Bank, 46 State Street, Detroit, Mich. Harrell, L. P., the Morris Plan Bank, 700 Fourteenth Street NW., Washington, D. C. Hogg, Robert L., American Life Convention, 230 North Michigan Avenue, Chicago, Ill. Hudgens, R. W., Farm Security Administration, Washington, D. C. Kacy, Howard W., 51 Louisiana Avenue, Washington, D. C., Acacia Mutual Life Insurance Co. Kerr, Robert D., First National Bank, St. Louis, Mo. McCarthy, M. F., National Association Mutual Savings Banks, 110 East Fortysecond Street, New York, N. Y. McGill, John M., Equitable Life Insurance Co. of Iowa, Des Moines, Iowa. Mattison, E. A., executive vice president, Bank of America, 300 Montgomery Street, San Francisco, Calif. Morrison, Frank, First Federal Savings & Loan Association, 610 Thirteenth Street NW., Washington, D. C. Odom, E. E., Solicitor, Veterans' Administration. Picard, Ralph, Farm Security Administration, Washington, D. C. Russell, Horace, United States Savings & Loan League, 221 North La Salle Street, Chicago, Ill. Satterfield, Dave E., Jr., Life Insurance Association of America, 165 Broadway, New York, N. Y. Stonier, Harold, general counsel, American Bankers Association, 22 East Fortieth Street, New York, N. Y. Stout, Richard H., Morris Plan Bankers Association, 1025 Connecticut Avenue NW., Washington D. C. Travers, James M., West Baltimore Building Association, St. Paul at North, Baltimore, Md. Walker, Oliver M., Walker & Dunlop, 1200 Fifteenth Street NW., Washington, D. C. Walton, George E., Metropolitan Life Insurance Co., No. 1 Madison Avenue, New York, N. Y. LEGION REPRESENTATIVES Atherton, Warren H., past national commander, 520 First National Building, Stockton, Calif. Emery, John, past national commander and representing National Real Estate Boards, Grand Rapids, Mich. Hill, Dana C., 1608 K Street NW., Washington, D. C. Lavers, Ralph, director, national employment committee, 1608 K Street NW., Washington, D. C. Kelley, Charles Q., Farm Security Administration, Little Rock, Ark. Kraabel, T. O., director, national rehabilitation committee, 1608 K. Street NW., Washington, D. C. Nowak, Edward, vocational training and educational representative, 1608 K Street NW., Washington, D. C. Sullivan, Francis M., assistant director, national legislative committee, 1608 K Street NW., Washington, D. C. Taylor, John Thomas, director, national legislative committee, 1608 K Street, Washington, D. C. Waldrip, W. B., national executive committeeman, the American Legion and the Detroit Bank, Detroit, Mich. Warner, Milo J., past national commander, the American Legion, Nicholas Building, Toledo, Ohio. Welsh, A. D., Missouri Bankers Association, and past department commander, the American Legion, 1535 South Eighth Street, St. Louis, Mo. Senator JOHNSON. Are there any questions? (No response.) Colonel TAYLOR. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. Senator JOHNSON. Mr. T. O. Kraabel, have you a statement to make now? STATEMENT OF T. O. KRAABEL, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL REHABILITATION COMMITTEE, AMERICAN LEGION Mr. KRAABEL. The statement has been pretty well covered by the legislative director, Mr. Chairman. I might comment briefly on title II. We feel rather strongly about the matter of men who are intent upon getting a short-term or specialist course complete in itself, and that the normal charge covering that course not to exceed $500 should be payable and not be prorated, as was explained yesterday. The Veterans' Administration agrees with that. We also see the point that where one specialist course takes a tuition within the $500 limitation, that should also operate against the total credit of time that the man may have earned for his educational course so it will equalize out at the end of 4 years. I have already explained about the advisement and consulting. service. And then there is the matter of these men who have jobs. We have several World War II boys on our staff. They are training on the job in service work, but they would also like to take courses preparing themselves in law, or whatever course they might select. In doing so we feel that the fact that they have a job supplementing the subsistence allowance should not operate to their disadvantage on the subsistence allowance. We feel that Congress did not put the subsistence allowance in there as a needs clause, but they realy did name it for subsistence. We feel the veteran should receive that because they are put to additional expense in taking that course after their work hours. To reverse it, the man is taking a full course, and finds a part-time job to supplement the family income. . There is a statement in the law that anyone who may choose may take a course without the subsistence allowance. That has been interpreted to mean that the sense of Congress was there should not be subsistence allowance where there is full-time work not connected with the training objective or the course being pursued. But we have complaints from these boys that they feel they should, as free agents, be permitted to supplement subsistence allowance by work when they can get it, whether connected with their course or not. There is also the proposition in some schools where students, under Public Law 16, the disabled veterans training rehabilitation courses, are taking courses of education for which the Government pays the school a certain fixed sum under contract and, in some classes there will be a man under title II of Public Law 346, for whose course the Government is paying a different amount to the same school for identically the same course. The complaints from our people in the field are that that is confusing and not understandable to these boys. They are all looking to section 1505, and they feel that if under 346 more is being paid than would be paid under contract under Public Law 16, they will have charged back more than the original cost, so we ask that that be equalized. There was a proposal yesterday by the Veterans' Administration which may go to this point, whereby they will go under contract to the schools under Public Law 346 as well as Public Law 16. Senator LUCAS. Under what theory does the discrepancy arise between the two? Mr. KRAABEL. I think historically, Senator, Public Law 16 of March 1943, was enacted by Congress first, the disabled coming first, as they should, and it took the pattern of the law-not entirely, but the substance-which was followed after the last war. These disabled men have service-connected disabilities for which a pension is paid, there is vocational handicap, and training is necessary to overcome that handicap. To accomplish the full purpose of the law, the Veterans' Administration virtually has the man as its ward until training is accomplished. And it has contracts with different schools and is not limited in the charges which the schools make for special or regular courses. Then, under our theory of the Servicemen's Readjustment Act, where the man is a free agent to select his school in whatever State it might be, there the ordinary tuition charge would be payable unless that school could show the Administrator that educating a big group of World War II veterans would entail additional expense. That was developed yesterday by the Administrator and his colleagues. The result is in many places they have for the same identical courses, two different fees paid by Uncle Sam to that school. We believe that should be done away with. Senator JOHNSON. We thank you, Mr. Kraabel. Colonel TAYLOR. No; but I suggest since Mr. Bodfish is here representing the building and loan people and he sat in on the writing of the recommendations we submitted, some time today it might be well to hear from him. Senator JOHNSON. Thank you, Colonel Taylor. We will call on him. Now, we will have Dr. Francis J. Brown, of the American Council of Education. Will you proceed in your own way, Dr. Brown? STATEMENT OF FRANCIS J. BROWN, AMERICAN COUNCIL ON EDUCATION, WASHINGTON, D. C. Mr. BROWN. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, I am glad for this opportunity to meet with this subcommittee of the Senate Finance Committee to discuss the proposed amendments to one of the most vital pieces of legislation passed by the Seventy-eighth Congress. In presenting this statement, I am speaking officially for the council's committee on the relationship of higher education to the Federal Government and on behalf of Guy E. Snavely, executive director, Association of American Colleges. The recommendations have been discussed unofficially with the presidents of the National Association of State Universities and of the Association of Land-Grant Colleges. These three organizations, together with the council, represent the bulk of the major organizations in the field of higher education. The council's membership represents 111 national associations in the field of education and 728 institutions of higher education, school systems and educational departments in industry. It is a nonprofit organization founded in 1918 as a means through which to establish liaison between education and the agencies of Government, especially the Departments of War and Navy. We have had close relations with all organizations within Government and have rendered many services to those organizations. The members of the committee on the relationships of higher education to the Federal Government are: O. C. Carmichael, chairman, chancelor, Vanderbilt University, Nashville, Tenn. Chancelor H. W. Chase, New York University, New York, N. Y. President James B. Conant, Harvard University, Cambridge, Mass. President Herman B. Wells, Indiana University, Bloomington, Ind. President Carter Davidson, Knox College, Galesburg, Ill. Edward V. Stanford, rector, Augustinian College, Washington, D. C. President Raymond Walters, University of Cincinnati, Cincinnati, Ohio, and George F. Zook, ex officio, president, American Council on Education. The American Council on Education has from the beginning, and continuously, been interested in the problem of the educational readjustments of the veteran. The members of the council's staff served on the Postwar Conference and on the Armed Forces Committee on Postwar Educational Opportunities for Service Personnel. In October 1943, almost a year before Public Law 346 was passed, the council submitted a series of questions to the presidents of collegss and universities to procure their judgment in regard to the postwar education of veterans. In the council's bulletin, Higher Education and National Defense No. 60 (published November 30, 1943), there was presented a proposed plan for the education of veterans, definitely setting the pattern, much of which later was incorporated in the legislation. In March 1944 the council called together representatives of 21 national organizations representing all levels and types of education. This group spent a total of 11 days during the intervening months, studying the proposed bills and making specific recommendations. Individual members of the group met with congressional committees throughout hearings on the proposed bills which eventually were merged into Public Law 346. The council made representation to the House Committee on World War Veterans' Legislation while pending amendments were being considered and prior to the passage of H. R. 3749 by the House. A member of the council's staff discussed this legislation with the chairman of the Finance Committee of the Senate and the chairman of the subcommittee on veterans' legislation. As a result of these and other conferences, two studies of the operations of Public Law 346 during this past year have been made. One of 100 colleges and universities; the other of the administration of Public Law 346 on the State level. In cooperation with the National Education Association and the American Vocational Association comparable studies have been made by these organizations of the operation of Public Law 346 through public-school systems and vocational schools. The Congress is to be commended on the far-reaching values of its legislation pertaining to the education of veterans. A recent magazine article stated that the GI is rejecting education. This is not true. Colleges and universities report that already this fall the number of veterans in their institutions is three times that of last June, and the number of those discharged without disability has only now become significant. Public-school systems report an unprecedented number of applications from veterans seeking many types of education of less than college level. A recent study of men at the separation center indicates that 7 percent plan to take advantage of the educational benefits made possible by the Congress and indications definitely point to the fact that even this percentage is conservative. One man hazards a guess that the number will be in excess of a million. The Congress is to be commended especially in passing legislation which is based upon the principle that the readjustment of the veteran is a national responsibility and that the cost of his education and training is to be borne by the Federal Government. States and institutions are gladly sharing by providing physical facilities, counseling, the maintaining of records and reports and in other ways not directly related to providing education and training. This acceptance of the responsibility on the part of the Federal Government to provide fair and reasonable compensation to the institution for the training and education of veterans and the institution's acceptance of responsibility to provide physical facilities has made |