tion. We emphasize 4 million women served and will continue to have, and I think you overestimate it when you say there are 72 million women of childbearing age who don't have access to or knowledge of this information.

I think you are assuming the only place they can get it is from a federally financed program, and we think that is wrong.

Mr. SCHEUER. What I am saying is a lot of women in previous years may have been able to get it. But in this devastated economy of ours they are no longer able to get it, and therefore you have an increase in your constituents.

Secretary WEINBERGER. First of all, I think that is a very temporary situation.

Mr. SCHEUER. Your President doesn't seem to think so. He has told us we are going to have 8 and 9 percent unemployment for a good many years ahead.

Secretary WEINBERGER. There have been differing estimates but the basic idea is that if we adopt the policies the President has proposed we will soon have a marked improvement in the economy. This will certainly eliminate even the possibility, which I don't believe exists now, for a number of people who might be in need of this service not being able to get it.

Mr. ROGERS. Thank you.

Mr. SCHEUER. May I ask just one more?

Mr. ROGERS. Let me shift over. Then we will come back. Dr. Carter, do you have any additional questions?

Mr. CARTER. Just one or two, Mr. Chairman, if it is all right.

With your permission, sir, I would like to recognize Dr. Elizabeth Boggs, who received the HEW Distinguished Service Award for service to the developmentally disabled. Could I ask her to stand with. your permission?

Mr. ROGERS. Certainly. The committee is delighted to recognize Dr. Boggs. [Applause.]

Dr. BOGGS. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman. It is a pleasure to work with this committee over the years and a pleasure to work with the Department in implementing the joint efforts of the Congress and the administration.

Mr. ROGERS. You have been a driving force to improve that legislation and I appreciate Dr. Carter bringing you to our attention, your presence here today.

Mr. CARTER. Just one other thing, Mr. Chairman. If you remember when the family planning bill came up, just a little explanation to that. It seemed that my good Catholic friends on the committee didn't want their names on it, and those who had large Catholic constituencies didn't want their names on it, so that the subcommittee voted since I was the original sponsor in the House to put my name on it and there it is today.

I strongly support it, not only here, but abroad. I think it is one of our greatest approaches to-well, assistance to the nations throughout the world if we can properly apply it.

Thank you.

Mr. ROGERS. Thank you.

Mr. SCHEUER. Mr. Secretary, I would like to ask you a question dealing with your relations to Congress. The Congress has made it clear

time after time that we didn't intend that the family planning services project grant program be turned back to the States in effect to become a lump sum to State agency programs. Yet, for several years, HEW has been steadily transforming the family planning services project grant program into a system of block grants to the States.

I hope that you are going to instruct your regional offices as to the wishes of this committee and of the Congress that we have expressed time after time and tell them to cease and desist, and that you will cease and desist in your effort to change this program into a State agency program.

Secretary WEINBERGER. Well, Congressman, what we have tried to do, and I believe successfully, has been to assemble a number of different sources of funding so that States that wish to involve themselves in this program are able to do so.

The title X program has been observed and is continuing to be observed. We are also providing additional funds through medicaid for the family planning services.

I don't think we are ignoring any congressional intent.

Mr. SCHEUER. You tell us that you are going to put pressure on the medicaid people in title IV to reduce expenditures.

Secretary WEINBERGER. Well, we aren't telling them any specific areas to reduce. What we are trying to do is eliminate overutilization that deprives everybody, particularly the most needy, of these services. I don't think there is any public interest in seeing these States waste money. That is our only aim.

I am not conscious of any violation of congressional intent in this area whatever.

Mr. ROGERS. Thank you, Mr. Secretary. We don't have much time, so I will just ask a few questions, perhaps some to be submitted for the record.

I think you have given us the rationale and the thinking of the administration on the veto which was really what we wanted.

Mr. SCHEUER. We don't want the veto, do we, Mr. Chairman?
Mr. ROGERS. The rationale of the veto.

Mr. SCHEUER. Excuse me, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. ROGERS. So what we will do is look it over. Of course, I think it would be helpful for the record if you could characterize the major differences between the House bill, the Senate bill and any suggestions as to how differences might be appropriately resolved.

Secretary WEINBERGER. We would be delighted to do that.

Mr. ROGERS. We have some hesitancy in doing this. As you know, this committee has always stipulated a level of funding, because we think we ought to face up to it, let people know, rather than go through a charade of maybe getting nothing. So I think it is our feeling we probably would and we will look at that suggestion.

Let me ask you this concerning reimbursement to community mental health centers by SRS under the social services legislation. I think you have on your desk for decision a new proposed policy revision concerning appropriate reimbursement policy for such services.

Secretary WEINBERGER. We are pretty well completed on that. The social services regulations generally are before the Congress and approved and will take effect in October, absent some other change and that will finally bring some certainty into

Mr. ROGERS. Yes. If you will let us know what this is, then I would be interested in getting comment and you may want to expand on this for the record with regard to the provision in the Senate version of legislation on developmental disabilities regarding coverage of people suffering from specific learning disabilities.

Can you comment on that?

Secretary WEINBERGER. We will cover that. Generally we have felt that the developmental disabilities program should be primarily that. If you get into subjects that involve to a very considerable extent educational problems as opposed to health problems you diffuse and dilute the developmental disabilities program.

There are educational programs for the handicapped designed to reach these other things, but we will elaborate on that. Mr. ROGERS. I think that would be helpful.

[The following information was received for the record:]

SENATE BILL'S COVERAGE OF SPECIFIC LEARNING DISABILITIES

With regard to the Senate bill's coverage of specific learning disabilities, we do not object to these changes provided that persons would still have to meet, in order to be covered under the Developmental Disabilities program, the three requirements listed in the definition: that the disability originate before age 18, that it can be expected to continue indefinitely, and that it constitutes a substantial handicap as newly and more explicitly defined in S. 462. We understand that under this definition those services which are provided under other programs, such as education, mental health, or vocational rehabilitation services, are not provided under this program. The approach we are proposing will limit the program to those now being served in order to maintain the sharp focus of this program on its legitimate target group and will prevent the program's resources from being unduly diffused over a wide range of individuals as a result of an otherwise vague definition.

Mr. ROGERS. May I ask you then as to the Departmental request for your programs in 1976; that is, what was the Departmental request vis-a-vis the OMB final decision?

Secretary WEINBERGER. I don't have that with me. We can certainly try to get it to the extent it is authorized to be transmitted. I can't recall. We will certainly get it.

[See Budget for FY 1976-Department request and President's budget for development disabilities, p. 207.]

Mr. ROGERS. Could you give me a ball park figure?

Secretary WEINBERGER. No, there were not so much significant differences in totals. There were some, of course. There always are, but there were most the specific allocations of particular portions of the total produced.

Mr. ROGERS. Yes, I understand there was a problem there that they wanted to specify line item amounts rather than giving you a total and letting the Department use its discretion as to allocation among line item authorities.

Secretary WEINBERGER. But to the extent that we can, we will try to give you that.

Mr. ROGERS. Is there any problem with letting the Congress know

that?

Secretary WEINBERGER. There are some problems connected with it at given times during the budgetary process and frankly it has been changed since I used to be there. I don't know what it is, but to

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the extent that it is available to be transmitted to you, we will certainly try to do so.

Mr. ROGERS. Well, I presume we could call former Assistant Secretary Edwards and get it very easily, but as I recall he has commented that it was rather a significant reduction from the departmental request.

Secretary WEINBERGER. We have to look again at the timing. His memorandum served as a proposed draft appeal memorandum. Mr. ROGERS. I understand that.

Secretary WEINBERGER. Yes, but then subsequent to that there were some changes made and we will certainly make every effort to get it. I don't think there will be problems with it.

Mr. ROGERS. It would be helpful for the committee to give in some context what the professional people within HEW who run the programs vis-a-vis the concerns and priorities of the accounting people in the Office of Management and Budget.

Secretary WEINBERGER. Well, it is a chap called the President of the United States who has overall responsibility for the entire Govern

ment.

Mr. ROGERS. I clearly understand that, Mr. Secretary.

Secretary WEINBERGER. Well, I think that

Mr. ROGERS. And I know of the President's background in health as well, I served with him for 25 years.

Secretary WEINBERGER. But there is nothing in the budget or presentation I made this afternoon that contradicts what the President wants, to the best of my knowledge.

Mr. ROGERS. I don't deny that. I am not saying that you would present to us something he did not want. What I am saying is that I am not sure, that those wants were not directed solely by suggestions from the Office of Management and Budget without Department input.

Secretary WEINBERGER. We all had the oportunity to present our views to him and he took a much greater interest and personal involvement in the budget than any President within my memory.

Mr. ROGERS. What we are concerned with now is the Congress setting the priorities as we see them vis-a-vis what the Office of Management and Budget sees. It would be helpful in our setting of priorities to know what you as the Department and the professional health people thought was a reasonable approach, realizing the financial situation. We understand there are some areas that we ought to look at for cutting and some economies, and this committee is willing to look at those areas. It would be helpful if you would let us have the departmental thinking in that appeals process.

Secretary WEINBERGER. We will do our best, sir.

Mr. SCHEUER. Could you give us also your thinking on any restructuring that you think would be helpful to save the kind of waste, the kind of misallocation

Secretary WEINBERGER. Well, some of those would be before either this committee or the Ways and Means Committee with respect to our recommendations with respect to medicare and medicaid and there will be others, of course.

[The following information was received for the record:]

BUDGET FOR FISCAL YEAR 1976-DEPARTMENT REQUEST AND PRESIDENT'S BUDGET
FOR DEVELOPMENTAL DISABILITIES

Mr. ROGERS. Thank you for your patience and we are sorry to have taken so long, but we are grateful to you and the committee stands adjourned until 10 o'clock tomorrow morning.

I did want to mention, Mr. Secretary, it would be helpful if we could have your prepared statements 24 hours before hearings. I know this is sometimes difficult. We are trying to give sufficient notice for hearings.

If you could encourage your people to get us those statements 24 hours in advance of testimony, this would be most helpful.

Secretary WEINBERGER. This is certainly something we will do. It is a point that I make at a different level than you have just made it, but we will do our best to get it to you.

Mr. ROGERS. Thank you.

Without objection, the Chair wishes to place in the record, as though read, a statement by the Honorable Larry J. Winn of Kansas.

STATEMENT OF HON. LARRY J. WINN, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF KANSAS

Mr. WINN. Mr. Chairman and members of the subcommittee, I want to thank you for this opportunity to submit a statement in support of the Rape Prevention and Control Act.

Statistics show rape to be one of the most rapidly growing crimes in the United States today. And yet, rape is probably the least reported crime in our country, besides being one whose attacker is not likely to be punished. This low conviction rate and the rapidly increasing number of rapes makes it clear that our Nation's rape laws must be reexamined.

This is why I have cosponsored this bill to establish the National Center for the Prevention and Control of Rape. I am hopeful that the creation of a National Center would help develop a full understanding of the nature of the crime and its causes and effects; the impact and the threat of the crime on the victim, her family, and society; and the present methods of treating the victim and the accused.

Such an information center should go a long way toward assisting State and local officials in realizing the devastating psychological impact of rape on the victim and how law enforcement and health agencies have such a special responsibility in assisting the victim to cope with and overcome the massive psychic and emotional scars. Only then can we expect States and communities to develop more effective and more humane, victim-oriented procedures for dealing with the victim of rape.