Suddenly, the expenditures will appear and a great deal of funding authorized will be utilized. PROJECTS CONDUCTED BY THE SOIL CONSERVATION SERVICE Senator HUDDLESTON. Out of 15 projects concluded, how many were conducted by the Soil Conservation Service of the Department of Agriculture and how many were completed by the Department of the Interior? Mr. HEINE. While we are looking for that data, Senator, if you wish we would like to submit for the record a graph which we have developed and which I find very helpful. It indicates both the dollars spent and the number of projects as we proceed through each quarter. You can see it's a curve that's quickly moving upward. I think that might help explain that. Senator HUDDLESTON. Fine. We would like to have that for the record. [The information follows:] 120 000 60 NUMBER OF SCS PROJECTS Mr. REEVES. The 51 projects you referred to are all Interior, OSM. SCS uses a contract form. I was just told that they have initiated 63 contracts which would be above the 51 for OSM. Senator HUDDLESTON. How are the dollars obligated divided between the two departments? Mr. REEVES. Do you have that figure, Pete? The actual obligation? Mr. CULP. Our figure is about $21 million for project obligations through the end of December. NUMBER OF PROJECTS Mr. REEVES. $10.7 million is the figure for SCS. USE OF ABANDONED MINE LAND FUNDS Senator HUDDLESTON. Are you planning to use any reclamation funds for public facilities such as water and sewer systems in coal producing arcas? How is this program coordinated with that fund in the Department of Energy and operated by the Department of Agriculture for energy impact assistance? Mr. HEINE. As you know, the act does establish priorities for the use of the abandoned mine reclamation fund. In States that have considerable coal and noncoal reclamation needs, those are highest on the priority list and must be utilized first. So, in effect, a State, by the act, must first take care of its coal problems, then its noncoal problems, and then later it can get into impact assistance. Simply, there is no eligibility for impact assistance according to that priority list, I think, at the present time. SMALL OPERATOR ASSISTANCE Senator HUDDLESTON. I know, of course, that the small operator assistance programs don't really get started until we have the States' approved programs and that apparently few operators today have applied for assistance. I am somewhat concerned by the substantial cutback in the request for this program. I believe you are asking for $10.5 million for the 1981 budget. I was wondering if you are confident that that is sufficient to meet the needs? Mr. HEINE. As you know, the small operator assistance program has had difficulty getting going, apparently because of lack of enthusiasm by operators. We believe they lack knowledge that the program exists and how to utilize it. We have made an extensive effort in preparing pamphlets on what it's all about and have sent those out to all qualified small operators. We have held seminars for small operators to explain the program to them. We have had throughout the Nation almost 180 laboratories that have been designated. Most of the States are trying to run these programs right now. It looks like a big educational effort to get operators to apply for the money. Senator HUDDLESTON. Should the program be broadened? Mr. HEINE. I am sure small operators would appreciate it being broadened, yes. Senator HUDDLESTON. Trying to make it more practical, workable in certain areas. Mr. HEINE. It certainly does appear that small operators need additional help beyond that provided in this program. This program, as you know, just helps in the hydrologic aspects. There are other areas that the small operators could use help in. Senator HUDDLESTON. There is some question about the method being set up now that requires the State to underwrite this program. Mr. HEINE. What we are doing in the State program-it is clear in section 507(c) of the act-that it has created an entitlement to small operators to receive assistance. We don't think that it's intended that this entitlement be restricted to Federal funds. It appears that over the next year or so that we have sufficient funds to carry out the small operators program as it is now spelled out in the act. We don't think it's ever going to become a problem for the States; that is, whether the States individually have the funding to help out in this program. In fact, we think we have a legal problem in approving a program where a State very specifically says it will run the SOAP program as long as Federal funds exist. As soon as they don't exist, we won't run it. We don't think we can approve a program which says that. Senator HUDDLESTON. So they have to submit to a program hoping the Federal funds will continue and be adequate; but if not, they have to carry it on themselves? Is that the approach? Mr. HEINE. That's correct. Should they not appropriate funds for it, well, that's a different story. Senator HUDDLESTON. Is that an integral part of the State plan? That is, do you have to approve exactly how they handle the SOAP program? Mr. HEINE. That's correct. Senator HUDDLESTON. That would be part of the total plan? INFLUENCES ON OSM Senator HUDDLESTON. As you know, the coal producing States hear a lot of comment from time to time that environmental zealots have taken over the Department. One employee that you just dismissed was quoted as saying that the Department was unduly influenced by environmentalists during the rulemaking and many other officials are philosophically opposed to surface mining, period. What comment would you make on that? Mr. HEINE. I disagree with that statement. I think we have employed a broad, cross section of various types. Many sitting at this table, in fact, have degrees in mining engineering and have worked for mining companies. It is true we employ some-and we are happy to have them-that have worked for environmental groups. Primarily, though, we are staffed with career people who have worked with Federal and State government. I think we have a broad cross section. I think that's appropriate for our type of work. Senator HUDDLESTON. Naturally, we have a lot of concern. Many of us consider ourselves environmentalists, too, particularly back in Kentucky. We did pass what at that time was landmark environmental legislation. It looks pretty weak compared to what we are dealing with now, but at least it was a considerable step forward. There's no question that we are involved here with a national interest and the part coal has to play in it. We still have many operators in Ken tucky who say that they just can't live under this law and can't operate and would be put out of business. Some undoubtedly should be. The question is whether or not we can meet the production volume that, hopefully, some day will be achieved so we can reduce our dependence on imported oil. We find the Congress, the administration, everybody else seems to be very reluctant to really embrace coal as a prime prospect for solving a good part of our energy needs. I hate to keep putting more stumbling blocks in the way. Certainly we do recognize the purpose of the bill. ADDITIONAL COMMITTEE QUESTIONS I have no other questions for now. We will have some to submit to you. [The following questions were not asked at the hearing but were submitted to the Department for response subsequent to the hearing:] ADDITIONAL COMMITTEE QUESTIONS Mineral Institute Program Question: Please indicate the number of employees in the Mineral Institute program that have mining experience or experience in university research. In each case, list the current grade held, type of prior mining experience, number of years of mining or university work and highest position held in such a field, and whether the individual is now in a policy making position. Answer: The Branch of Mineral Institutes, consisting of four professionals, is supervised by Dr. Lawrence Chase, who holds a Bachelor's and Master's Degree in Mining Engineering and a Ph.D. in Geoscience. He has 14 years experience in the management of research and development laboratories, including a number of regional laboratories. In this capacity he served as a program manager dealing with the administration of grant programs, such as the Organization of American States project, in which grants were awarded to a number of South American Universities to support research in scientific and technological development of the resources of the participating countries. He has over 9 years operating experience in private industry where he worked in coal mining operations for the U.S. Steel Corporation. The Chief, Division of Research is Paul R. Heitzenrater, a Registered Professional Engineer, who has had many years of experience in water pollution control activities, including mining and mineral operations, with a state regulatory agency. Recently, for a period of nine years, he directed research programs at the EPA which included the award of grants to universities. Dr. David R. Maneval, Assistant Director for Technical Services and Research has over 20 years experience in directing multi-million dollar research programs in mining and minerals extraction and processing areas at two Federal (Appalachian Regional Commission and OSM) and one State agency. Much of the research was conducted through grants to Universities. He also served as a professor in mining and minerals areas at the Pennsylvania State University. He is a recognized authority, both nationally and internationally, for his contributions in areas of mining and minerals, including mineral economics, coal preparation, acid mine drainage prevention and control, and coal hydrology. The headquarters staff of the Technical Services and Research Directorate who are available to provide expert technical support to the Mineral Institutes Program, comprise a wide range of skill mixes, including: agronomist, geologist, mining engineers, hydrologist, physical scientists, soil scientists and biologists. At least ten members of the staff have Ph.D's (Joseph O'Connor, Richard Champney, Chau Chen, Robert Parsons, Robert Hemmes, Mark Boster, Phyllis Thompson, Henry Gerke, Larry Chase and David Maneval). Also, eight staff members are registered |