A. and M. or any institution unless we are going to make a general policy of donations. I can understand the desirability of turning over to Clemson College and other educational institutions that land that is going to be used for instructional and demonstrational purposes. I think there is a sound basis for that. But to say that we are going to turn over 27,000 acres of timberland and let them cut the timber and use the proceeds for any thing they want to, it seems to me is a rather far-reaching proposition that has been brought before us. Mr. GRANT. Let me ask this, Mr. Chairman. At the present time could they sell the timber and use the money? Mr. POAGE. I think probably they can sell the timber on the land that they have now. Of course, I have never seen the contract, but I presume they can, but if I understand it, they at least have to use the proceeds for the school. We had a rather similar situation in Texas with Texas A. and M. College. There they required them to use all of the proceeds to improve the experiment station which was located on the land. They could not take the proceeds anywhere else. They had to put them on to that particular station. It is still the provision of law. Mr. GRANT. The question narrows down pretty closely. STATEMENT OF DR. W. A. BARNETTE, BOARD OF TRUSTEES, CLEMSON AGRICULTURAL COLLEGE, CLEMSON, S. C. Mr. DORN. Doctor, do you have the right to use the timber on the land as it is now? Dr. BARNETTE. We select and harvest timber. Mr. Chairman, may I have this to say: I rather think that we have the wrong idea as to what Clemson College has in mind. All we ask is that we may do this if we have land wherein that will be objectionable. This is not going to be done overnight. It is going to be over a period of time. We have a nucleus of owners still holding their property who, when we go into research, may cross over and disturb some of our research in cooperation with the United States Government and Clemson College. If we can persuade that man to give us a price on his property then we will go out and see if we can sell to someone land that is out of bounds or out on the edges that can be saved or cut off for that purpose. Mr. POAGE. We understand that. I do not think anyone has any objection to that. I think that is an understandable and reasonable request but the question is: You then take that property that that man now owns and are going to have it free and clear of any and all restrictions. Dr. BARNETTE. No, sir. Mr. POAGE. That is what the lawyer said. Dr. BARNETTE. That is not our idea and that is not the idea of this amendment here, section 2. The idea is to come back to the Secretary of Agriculture and his associates and that land can be brought under the same terms that the land that is deeded to us. Mr. POAGE. But the amendment does not bring it under the same terms. I think it can. Dr. BARNETTE. All we are trying to do is have our property set up so that we can protect ourselves and so that we can develop it as a nucleus over a period of time. We may not ask for a transfer in a year's time or 2 years or 3 years, and we are making a careful survey, having our staff make a careful survey of all these properties, pinpointing the areas we are going to use for one project or another project, to turn certain grasses, irrigation, and timberlands. Then we have our forest area and then we have our wildlife area. All those things have been set up and when we run into something or happen into a part of the land that comes within this project, that is assigned this area, our hope is that we can remove that property, dispose of it, and bring back in this same property under the same regulations or transfer terms that we have with this property. Mr. POAGE. I cannot believe that you would find any serious objection on the part of this committee to giving you that authority. I do not think your amendment does it, and I think your lawyer will tell you that it does not do it. Mr. CRAFTS. That was my understanding. Mr. POAGE. Do you not think it might be a good thing to recess this hearing and let you folks work this bill over and bring us a bill that does do that? Dr. BARNETTE. What would you suggest? Mr. POAGE. It is going to take some serious study from the legal standpoint of writing it, but I want the bill brought in here, putting this land that you acquire under the same limitations of the land that you trade off. Dr. BARNETTE. You want a breakdown bringing in the fact that this land would come in under the same conditions and limitations through the Department of Agriculture? Mr. GRANT. No; that it would be used for public purposes. we can, Mr. POAGE. Your attorney just suggested that it would probably save the time of you gentlemen, and we want to do that as much as if you would present any factual statements you want to present with the understanding that this committee was going to attempt to work out this phase of it and we would welcome any suggestions that you might want to bring in a few days later. I thing that might help; and, if there are other statements about the general matter on which probably there is no issue at all about the right to transfer this land, we can hear them now. I doubt if anybody has reservations about the desirability of the transfers provided we keep it within limitations. If there are further statements to be made generally as to the desirability of it, we would be glad to try to hear them now to save the necessity of coming back. Mr. DORN. Mr. Chairman, could you give us an idea of when we could come back before you? Mr. POAGE. I do not think it necessary to come before us again if we are all in agreement. I think I speak for the rest of the committee when I say that we want to be sure that we do not give you a vehicle whereby you can run this horse out of the shed and ride him off. We want to give you the right to transfer this land so that you can block it up, but we want this land that you acquire to be subject to the same requirements of public use to which the land that you trade off is subject. Dr. BARNETTE. Mr. Chairman, I hope you dismiss that from your mind. Mr. POAGE. We cannot dismiss it from our minds, because we have to write it in the bill. Dr. BARNETTE. We will put it in the bill. We have no chicanery in this. Mr. POAGE. Is there any other statement to be made about this bill? Mr. CRAFTS. I have nothing further. Mr. DORN. I have nothing further. Mr. POAGE. If not, the committee will consider the bill in executive session, and we will welcome any suggestions as to phraseology that you gentlemen can offer us as to carrying out what I am sure we all are agreed should be carried out, and our attorney will work with yours. Mr. DORN. I will be frank to say that you have been most helpful on this thing this morning. We appreciate so much the opportunity of appearing. Mr. POAGE. Thank you, gentlemen, very much. The committee will stand in recess, subject to call. (Whereupon, at 12:20 p. m., the hearing was recessed, subject to the call of the Chair.) |