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Statement of-Continued

Brennan, James, Acting General Counsel, Department of Commerce_
Casey, Mike, director, Minnesota Department of Natural Resources -
Clapper, Louis S., Director of Conservation, National Wildlife
Federation, Washington, D.C..........

Coerr, Ambassador Wymberley, delegate to the Convention on
International Trade in Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and
Flora__

Corcoran, James P., assistant attorney general, State of New York..
Coughlin, Hon. Lawrence, a Representative in Congress from the State
of Pennsylvania..

Doman, Everett, Director of the Division of Wildlife Management,
Forest Service, Department of Agriculture.

Frank, Richard, Center for Law and Social Policy of the Sierra Club__
Garner, William, Office of the Solicitor, Department of the Interior..
Garrett, Tom, wildlife director, Friends of the Earth, Washington,
D.C_

Gazlay, A. Gene, director, Michigan Department of Natural Re-
sources, and chairman, Legislative Committee of the International
Association of Game, Fish, and Conservation Commissioners----
Grandy, Dr. John, Washington representative, National Parks and
Conservation Association_

Helstoski, Hon. Henry, a Representative in Congress from the State of
New Jersey-.

Herter, Christian A., Special Assistant to the Secretary of State
Housley, Raymond M., Associate Deputy Chief for National Forest
System, Department of Agriculture_

Hughes, Robert C., chairman of the Sierra Club's National Wildlife
Committee_-_

Irwin, Howard S., president, New York Botanical Garden...
Lefkowitz, Louis J., New York State Attorney General (prepared)
North American Falconers Association__

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Pollock, Howard, Deputy Administrator, NOAA, U.S. Department of
Commerce...

226

Poole, Daniel A., president of Wildlife Management Institute (prepared)

363

Reed, Nathaniel P., Assistant Secretary for Fish and Wildlife and
Parks, Department of the Interior...

201

Roe, Hon. Robert A., a Representative in Congress from the State of
New Jersey..

278

Schoning, Robert, Deputy Director, National Marine Fisheries
Service, Department of Commerce..

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Seater, Stephen R., director of public relations, Defenders of Wildlife.
Stenlund, Milton, Regional Game Supervisor

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Stevens, Christine, secretary, Society for Animal Protective Legislation, Washington, D.C.

255

Vander Kolk, Marvin, Division of Legislative Affairs, Department of
Agriculture.

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Wallace, David, Associate Administrator, NOAA, Department of
Commerce..

226

Watling, Harold, Defenders of Wildlife.

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Wheeler, Douglas, Deputy Assistant Secretary for Fish and Wildlife and Parks, Department of the Interior...

201

Whitehurst, Hon. G. William, a Representative in Congress from the
State of Virginia__

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Wilson, Cynthia E., Washington representative, National Audubon
Society

248

Young, Hon. C. W. Bill, a Representative in Congress from the
State of Florida..

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Additional information supplied-Continued

Commerce Department: Possible inconsistencies between the en-
dangered species bills and the endangered species convention.........

Corcoran, James P.: Mason law......

Dingell, Hon. John D.: Countries participating in the development of

the Convention of International Trade in Endangered Species of

Wild Fauna and Flora..

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Plenipotentiary Conference To Conclude an International Con-
vention on Trade in Certain Species of Wildlife:

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Brooks, James W., Alaska Department of Fish and Game, letter of
April 17, 1973, to Hon. Mike Gravel..

380

Carlson, C. Edward, letter of February 20, 1971, to Clark M. Hoff-

pauer..

Dean, Frederick C., University of Alaska, letter of March 19, 1973,
to Hon. John Dingell...

Dingell, John D., letter of April 5, 1973, to Nathaniel P. Reed.

Ehrlich, Miles, letter of March 12, 1973, to Hon. John D. Dingell...

Farmen, Darrell, Alaska Professional Hunters Association, letter of

February 2, 1973, to John D. Dingell...

Forgy, Frances A., letter of December 18, 1964, to J. D. Hair, Jr.
Frank, Richard A.:

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379

314

Letter of December 8, 1972, to Nathaniel Reed..
Letter of March 21, 1973, to E. U. Curtis Bohlen..
Hair, J. D., Jr., letter of December 15, 1964, to Hon. T. A. Thompson
with enclosures_

338

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312

Hoffpauer, Clark M., letter of March 22, 1971, to C. Edward Carlson.
Irwin, Howard S :

318

Letter of April 11, 1973, to Representative John D. Dingell with
questions and answers enclosed...

366

Letter of April 23, 1973, to Hon. John D. Dingell with enclosure_

368

Potter, Frank, letter of April 17, 1973 to Nathaniel P. Reed request-
ing additional information..

372

Sharp, James R., Fur Conservation Institute of America, letter of
April 16, 1973, to John D. Dingell.........

369

ENDANGERED SPECIES

THURSDAY, MARCH 15, 1973

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

SUBCOMMITTEE ON FISHERIES AND WILDLIFE

CONSERVATION AND THE ENVIRONMENT OF THE

COMMITTEE ON MERCHANT MARINE AND FISHERIES, Washington, D.C. The subcommittee met at 10:10 a.m., in room 1334, Longworth Office Building, Hon. John D. Dingell (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.

Mr. DINGELL. The subcommittee will come to order.

The Chair is particularly pleased to welcome old friends, Christian Herter and Ambassador Coerr and their associates, to the committee for a statement today.

The Chair is particularly pleased to welcome you gentlemen upon the successful completion of your negotiations to draft a tough, workable treaty for the protection of endangered species of plants and animals.

The Chair does wish to commend you gentlemen, your associates and those who participated as part of the U.S. delegation on an outstanding job.

The 3 weeks of discussions, talks and horse-trading which have just recently concluded have produced a document of which you can justly be proud.

I am very much impressed by the fact that the draft convention which you have produced, potentially a highly controversial document, was ultimately worked out without the necessity for ever having had to put a section, clause, or word to a vote.

I wish that you could show us how this might be done in the Congress we might be much more productive if we could follow your example.

As I am sure you are aware, the convention which was produced, generated originally by a congressional directive, was a little late, and we need not go into the reasons for that right now, but was certainly timely.

The timeliness of the convention is all the more significant in view of the fact that this committee intends shortly to begin hearings with a view to amending existing U.S. legislation protecting endangered species. It is my hope to develop further amendments to the legislation now pending before this committee in order to make the U.S. internal laws entirely consistent with the treaty which you are responsible for having produced.

In the course of your comments, you may care to discuss the additional requirements which the Congress imposed upon the executive

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branch, and upon the State Department, to develop new international agreements for the protection of marine ecosystems and marine mammals.

Our Marine Mammal Protection Act calls for the convening of an international ministerial meeting for this purpose not be later than July 1 of this year.

I am constrained to remark that this date may not be possible to meet, in view of the brief time remaining, but I would hope that such a meeting can be brought off at the earliest possible time. I will no doubt be discussing this matter further with you.

I would also say that it is my hope that you gentlemen will be in a position to handle that matter as well. Your track record on the endangered species convention is such that your involvment in the Marine Mammal Conference could only be to the good.

Gentlemen, I thank you for coming up to be with us today. We look forward with pleasure to your presentation.

Mr. Secretary, you may proceed.

STATEMENT OF HON. CHRISTIAN A. HERTER, SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO THE SECRETARY OF STATE, ACCOMPANIED BY AMBASSADOR WYMBERLEY COERR, DELEGATE TO THE CONVENTION ON INTERNATIONAL TRADE IN ENDANGERED SPECIES OF WILD FAUNA AND FLORA

Mr. HERTER. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman and particularly thanks for your very kind remarks with respect to the negotiations we have recently completed on a Convention on Endangered Species of Wild Fauna and Flora and let me say that we spend a good deal of time in developing a definition that was satisfactory to everybody in this regard.

Simply by way of background, Mr. Chairman, I would point out that the United States is a member of other far smaller international conventions dealing with endangered species or dealing with species that are subject to regulation. For example, historically there have been two types of conventions, those that you might call catch oriented where the whole purpose is to control the harvest of species, such as the International Whaling Convention, the Northwest Atlantic Fisheries Convention, et cetera, and we have obviously in a few instances become parties to what you might call preservation oriented conventions such as those involving the migratory birds.

There has never been any major worldwide convention until this one that dealt with trade in endangered species or nearly endangered species and you might well ask, well why is trade so important and why is trade a factor in a thing of this kind?

Of course, the answer is that for many of the species we have been concerned with, both flora and fauna, the problems of trade are the ones that create the greatest problem of endangerment.

I am not sure the committee, Mr. Chairman, is aware of some of the figures with respect to what the United States annually does in this whole area, but I thought it would be useful for the record just to point out that trade is a major factor in endangerment.

Mr. Chairman, we have such examples as vicuna wool, crocodile and alligator skins, tiger skins, turtle shells, whale oil; feathers from

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