Therefore, if they had been paid a salary over that time, it was deducted from any funds they were holding to the credit of the man.

Mr. O'HARA. It was not quite clear in my mind. You may be more familiar with this than I am. If it was established that the man died, and there had been no family allotments, which is what I would call it, that had been paid, there was still a maximum allowance of $7,500 paid to him and his family. It is true that was reduced as the children became 18 years of age, but the widow still continued to draw the balance, or the remainder of that. Is that not true?

Mrs. WARD. For instance, we have two cases where the widow has passed away, and one child received it for 1 year, and one child for about a year and a half, about 22 years all told. That is the end of it. They do not receive the full amount of $7,500. They just receive these monthly payments.

Mr. O'HARA. I think there is also some limitation if the widow remarries.

Mrs. WARD. Yes. If she remarries, the payment is stopped. In the case of aged mothers, they receive $43, and in the case of death, that stops all payments.

Mr. O'HARA. I am merely seeking to get the factual information, you understand.

Mrs. WARD. Yes; I certainly do, Mr. O'Hara.

Mr. HINSHAW. Are there any further questions?

Mr. MILLER. Yes; I have a question.

Mr. HINSHAW. Mr. Miller.

Mr. MILLER. I am not clear as to just what the contractor paid.
Mrs. WARD. The contractor paid nothing.

Mr. MILLER. The employees of these contractors out there went off the pay roll?

Mrs. WARD. As of December 31, 1941.

Mr. MILLER. And the only compensation they received then has been social security?

Mrs. WARD. Through legislation. Social security the first year, and through legislation. Social security made these payments, the agency, actually. Actually they were not deducted from the men's social security or anything on deposit.

It was through a special fund that President Roosevelt set up. It was called an emergency fund, and Social Security administered the payment of these funds.

Mr. MILLER. Did most of these men have social-security benefits in addition to this special act?

Mrs. WARD. If they did, we have never been able to get any payments for them yet. We hope to get legislation through this year. Mr. MILLER. Would it be permissible, Mr. Chairman, to have a copy of the correspondence from the Social Security Board, denying, as I understand, to pay these claims, on the ground that they could not prove death?

Mr. HINSHAW. If the correspondence is available; yes.

Mrs. WARD. It is available. I took an official letter from the Bureau of Yards and Docks stating why we had not notified them of the deaths, that it was impossible for the Navy to give us the official date of death, until we took the island back. The Japanese admitted what had happened to these men, but Mr. Altmeyer stated he was sorry, he could do nothing.

Mr. MILLER. I think that if that correspondence is available, it would be of interest to the committee.

Mr. O'HARA. If I might suggest, Mr. Altmeyer

Mrs. WARD. Where we receive our payments, Mr. McCauley is the Director of the Bureau. It is the Federal Security Agency, Federal Employees Compensation. I am in contact with Mr. McCauley while I am here in Washington, and otherwise, practically once a week, in regard to these cases.

Dr. Franklin Hauptman is the medical director. I am also in contact with Dr. Hauptman. They are very lovely to me.

Mr. O'HARA. With reference to your point, Mr. Miller, I think you have stated, and it is my general understanding of it-but do not understand I am making a statement as a fact-but I do suggest, Mr. Miller, that Mr. McCauley or someone from the Commission could tell us exactly what the law is with reference to it. I believe that these employees, of course, when they became prisoners, were no longer employees and were not entitled except by special legislation to these payments. Is that not true, Mrs. Ward?

Mrs. WARD. That is correct. Mr. McCauley would be very glad to issue a statement.

I had a conference about 10 days ago with the legislative department of the Social Security Board, and they are drawing up legislation to be introduced in this Congress. I will be very happy to furnish to this committee a copy of that, showing why these families have not been able to draw the Social Security death-benefit payment. Mr. MILLER. In addition to social security these contractors with contracts in the Philippines were carrying workmen's compensation on their employees?

Mrs. WARD. Workmen's compensation was canceled December 31, 1941, on Wake Island.

Mr. MILLER. Did not the families receive the death benefits under the workmen's compensation policies?

Mrs. WARD. Anyone who died after December 31, 1941, did not receive, under the workmen's compensation. They received it through legislation.

Mr. MILLER. There were quite a substantial number, there is every reason to believe, that died on Wake Island before December 31, 1941. Mrs. WARD. That is correct. Those families were all paid under the workmen's compensation. Anyone whose death occurred before December 31, 1941, was paid under the workmen's insurance, and anyone who died after that was paid under the Commission at New York, or under the Federal Security Agency, Bureau of Employees' Compensation.

Mr. HINSHAW. Mr. Miller, I think the committee will have to obtain a complete statement from the several departments concerned which will show the exact situation with reference to these various employees and various classes of employees of the contractors, and what has been paid and what is being paid.

Mr. MILLER. I was not so concerned with departments of the Government as I am with the insurance companies that were carrying the policies on these men that were out there, and some of the details of the policies that were written.

Mr. HINSHAW. If you will ask where we may obtain the information, the committee will seek it.

Mr. O'HARA. Mr. McCauley should be able to give us that information.

Mrs. WARD. Mr. McCauley could give that information, and the Bureau of Yards and Docks of the United States Navy.

Mr. MILLER. As to what companies had the policies?

Mrs. WARD. That is right.

Mr. MILLER. Mr. Chairman, I would like to have a copy of the policies made available to the committee.

Mr. HINSHAW. I think it is a very good point, and the committee clerk or the staff will see to it that we have that information.

Mr. MILLER. I was not quite clear as to what payments were made to, we will say, a widow with one child, of a man who was killed after January 1, 1942.

Mrs. WARD. A widow with one child, a widow receives $56.66; the child receives $13.24, for the first child.

Mr. MILLER. It is $56 for life?

Mrs. WARD. No. Any insurance payments are only up to the amount of $7,500, then they are stopped.

For instance, in the cases we have, say a wife with six of several children, as we have several, the Government only recognizes the four children. They are drawing a total of $108.33. So that within 10 years that fund is going to be paid in full, and I do not know what is going to happen after that time.

Mr. MILLER. I have heard of governments paying a bonus for a large family, but I have never heard of them penalizing small families before.

Mrs. WARD. You cannot have over four.

Mr. HINSHAW. Do I understand correctly, Mrs. Ward, that a suit has been entered against the contractors for certain payments?

Mrs. WARD. A suit has been entered against the contractors for the fulfillment of the contract. The contract stated from the time the man left the mainland until he returned to the port of embarkation his contract was in full effect. It had no war clause for anything of that kind.

It stated he would receive subsistence, medical care, and hospitalization, and after 3 months, however, of being on the island, it increased up to 9 months.

We are not suing for salary, but for bonus and subsistance.

In the case of our Guam men they are being charged by the State Department for food, clothing, and medical care received in prison

camps.

Mr. MILLER. That is the point I was trying to raise. I understood these civilians' and workmen's policies were issued on the basis of covering the man until he came back to the United States. There were no war clauses in them.

Mrs. WARD. There were not, in any of our contractor's contracts. But the fact that the contract was canceled on December 31, 1941, they also canceled the insurance policy at that time.

Mr. HINSHAW. Who canceled the contracts?

Mrs. WARD. The United States Government, stating that the man was unable to fulfill his contract, as he was a guest of the Japanese.

60002-47-26

Mr. O'HARA. Did you say guest?

Mrs. WARD. That was my figure of speech.

Mr. HINSHAW. Of course the United States Navy, through its Bureau of Yards and Docks, will be liable for any expenses of the contractor, I believe, and hence the Navy is interested in the subject of any payments that would be made pursuant to any such contracts. I believe the statement from the Navy Department on this would be of value to this committee.

We thank you very much for appearing before us.

Mrs. WARD. I think there is one other thing you would like to know about. You have asked about many of our witnesses, if they have been approached by anyone in paying a sum for collecting if this bill is passed.

Mr. HINSHAW. We have asked other witnesses. Do you have a statement to make on that?

Mrs. WARD. Yes. Mr. Nugent came to my hotel when I was here last year in regard to legislation, at the Fairfax Hotel, and contacted

me.

He first went to Boise, Idaho. Last year I was not the national president, I was the national adviser.

He went to Boise, Idaho, and contacted Mr. Milliken, our treasurer, and our national president. They told him that I would be in Washington and he said that he could contact me there.

He told me about this, that we were going to sue Japan, and so on, and that each person would pay a fee of $1.20 and 1.5 percent of any amount received. I told him that we were not interested because we did the work for our organization, and we did not charge anything, and that is why I stay in Washington a great portion of the time, to take care of our members.

We notified our members by a bulletin. Several of them had received letters from this organization and had written asking us what to do about it. In at least three of our bulletins issued last year we told them under no circumstances to agree to pay any sum or any part of anything received in reparations from Japan, that the organization would take care of their claims without any cost, as we have done with legislation.

Mr. HINSHAW. If there are any such that you wish to submit to the committee, we would be pleased to have them.

Mrs. WARD. I will ask our members in our next bulletin to submit them to this committee.

Mr. O'HARA. In that connection I might say that I have received letters, copies, forwarded by my constituents, that I would like to submit for the record, by certain soliciting committees, and upon this and similar legislation.

Mr. HINSHAW. I think it would be proper to do so. I think, however, that we will wait until the chairman returns.

Mrs. WARD. Thank you, gentlemen. I sincerely hope this Congress will be able to pass this bill for these people.

Mr. HINSHAW. Our next witness is Col. George Ijams.

Colonel, we are sorry to have delayed hearing you this afternoon. We know you are located here in Washington and you do not have to go out of town at 5 o'clock.

STATEMENT OF GEORGE E. IJAMS, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL REHABILITATION SERVICE, VETERANS OF FOREIGN WARS, WASHINGTON, D. C.

Mr. IJAMS. That is right.

Mr. HINSHAW. We also know that you will be available at any time. for discussion on this subject, and suggest that you submit your statement and highlight anything that you care to add at this moment. Mr. IJAMS. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen of the committee: I have no prepared statement to make.

Mr. HINSHAW. It may be said for the record that Mr. Ijams is director of the National Rehabilitation Service, Veterans of Foreign -Wars, located in Washington, D. C.

You were formerly connected with the Veterans' Administration, Mr. IJAMS. For 27 years.

Mr. HINSHAW. In what position?

Mr. IJAMS. Assistant Administrator.

Mr. O'HARA. I think some of us have known you, Colonel, for almost 27 years.

Mr. IJAMS. I am sure you have.

Mr. Chairman, you have been very patient today, and I do not intend to take much of your time. I would merely like to augment something that Congressman Van Zandt said this morning. He mentioned the fact that we met in Manila in May 1945. It seems rather odd that when I walked into this room today I found that the reporter here, Mr. George Monick, who was at that time in the United States Army, was a reporter on our trip to Manila in May 1945, and a very efficient one, so I congratulate the committee on securing his services. I came here to Washington immediately after my return from France in June 1919 as Assistant Director to the old Bureau of War Risk Insurance, then as Assistant Director and Director of the United States Veterans' Bureau, and later as Assistant Administrator of the Veterans' Administration. In all of those years I have had charge of practically every activity. In fact, in 1930 and 1931, I was the last Director of the United States Veterans' Bureau. Consequently, I have had an opportunity to observe veterans' legislation.

I know what legislation costs the taxpayer; you cannot touch anything having to do with veterans' benefits without it costing the taxpayer a tremendous amount of money.

During all of those years I inspected the veterans' hospitals throughout the country. I saw the backwash of the last war, the physical wrecks that came out of it, and I observed the backwash of World War II.

And so, when I reached Manila, in May 1945, as a member of the Tydings commission, with orders from the President of the United States to go particularly into the veteran problem out there, I had an opportunity to visit the Army and Navy hospitals, not only in the Philippines, but in all the islands in-between the mainland and the Philippines.

In all of those hospitals I saw men being transported back to the States who had just been released from Japanese prison camps.

General MacArthur invited me to his quarters for lunch one day, and knowing that I was an old friend of Congressman Van Zandt, who was