36 of governmental disputes, that is, disputes between employees of a governmental agency or instrumentality. In spite of that, we have assisted in a number of situations where there has been a need expressed. I will give you another illustration. There were some real pending problems at the Charleston Navy Yard, and we received a joint request from Admiral Brockett and Bob Gritta of the Metal Trades to send a mediator. They made a joint request, we did supply a mediator, and it was a successful effort. The mediator was able to help them get over the hump and they got a new contract worked out without a strike or any serious problem. There will be increasing instances of this sort as unions become more active and representation of governmental employees becomes more common. Mr. MICHEL. Has your shop been asked to make any comment or observation to any committee of the Congress on any bills that might have been introduced to fill this gap to which you have referred? PROPOSED CHANGES IN EMERGENCY LEGISLATION Mr. SIMKIN. We have right now at the Bureau of the Budget a proposal which we have drafted which would take care of this. You will recall in connection with the President's state of the Union message he indicated that the administration might ask for some changes in emergency legislation. Our own proposal is at the Bureau of the Budget which would, among other things Mr. FLOOD. The Bureau of the Budget? Why? I am sick and tired of this business that every time you go the bathroom you have to get in touch with the Bureau of the Budget. Mr. SIMKIN. I am afraid I cannot answer that question. It is a requirement for legislation backed by the administration that the Bureau of the Budget coordinate it. Mr. FLOOD. The Bureau of the Budget ought to be taken from the executive and placed up here with the Congress where it belongs. Mr. MICHEL. When do you anticipate the final draft of what you have in mind will be available? Mr. SIMKIN. I do not know. I was talking yesterday on the phone. with some people at the Bureau, and they do not know what the timetable is at this moment. Mr. MICHEL. That is all. Mr. FOGARTY. Mr. Duncan. ARBITRATION Mr. DUNCAN. You apparently have 16 more mediators between the 1965 and the 1966 budget. It that about right? Mr. SIMKIN. That is right. Mr. DUNCAN. These mediators spend all their time on crisis mediation or preventive mediation. How do you handle your arbitration cases? Mr. SIMKINS. Unlike the National Mediation Board, we do not do any arbitration at all. We do provide a service of appointing arbitrators or in most instances civilian lists to the parties from which they select their own arbitrators. Our function is limited to the supplying 37. of the arbitrator. From that point on, the arbitrator works solely with the parties in a private capacity. As you note in some of the papers we submitted, that function of submitting lists of arbitrators has expanded at a tremendous rate. For the first 6 months of this fiscal year, the volume of requests for arbitrators is 13 percent higher than it was for the comparable period last year, and it has been going up every year since I have been here, and before. It has been going up geometrically. Mr. FLOOD. Is that binding arbitration? Mr. SIMKIN. Yes; but these are in connection with grievances, for the most part. Mr. DUNCAN. Disputes under contracts? Mr. SIMKIN. There is an occasional request for an arbitrator to handle a new contract, too. Mr. DUNCAN. This is in all cases except railroads and airlines; is that right? Mr. SIMKIN. Yes. Our volume of such requests is well over 5,000 cases a year. SELECTION OF ARBITRATORS Mr. DUNCAN. Who selects these arbitrators? Mr. SIMKIN. This is handled by the General Counsel's office here in Washington, in our office. Mr. DUNCAN. The mediators are not involved in that? Mr. SIMKIN. No. The General Counsel's office handles this. He has a very small staff. Mr. MOORE. Our mediator staff is involved in a minor capacity and fairly infrequently. Normally, before we put a name on our arbitration roster we do two things. We run a national agency check for limited security, and we make a rather thorough field check of the acceptability of the individual to labor and management. It would be embarrassing to suggest people they would not select. BACKLOG Mr. DUNCAN. You do not really have a backlog in the sense that other agencies have? Mr. MOORE. We have no backlog. Mr. SIMKIN. Both in disputes cases and in arbitration, we have no backlog. The only sort of thing you could call a backlog is the number of strike cases that are not settled at any particular moment of time, and that is a very small number. So, we do not have a backlog problem. Mr. DUNCAN. Those do not lend themselves to backlog situations. They have to be settled. Mr. SIMKIN. They have to be settled. Mr. DUNCAN. You would have a backlog in the sense that you might have more preventive mediation that you could do if you had the personnel. Mr. SIMKIN. If we had the personnel to do it. Mr. DUNCAN. In your opinion, this would be a profitable operation? Mr. SIMKIN. Very much so. WORKSHOP AND SEMINAR PROGRAM Mr. DUNCAN. As a matter of fact, the only thing that has not gone up in connection with your activities is the workshop and seminar program, which has declined. That is because of what? Mr. SIMKIN. There is no decline in that. Mr. DUNCAN. There was between 1964 and 1965 according to your table in the budget. Mr. MOORE. We are talking about two different things. That is under "Related activities." Mr. DUNCAN. Everything else seems to be going up. Mr. MOORE. I think this was in the early phase of our workshop program where we started in rather intensively and found in order to put on proper programs we had to spread them out, and we cut back to four a year. QUALIFICATIONS OF MEDIATORS Mr. DUNCAN. Where do you get your mediators? Mr. MOORE. From every place imaginable. We do not differentiate between labor and management backgrounds in the employment process, but it turns out, oddly enough, almost mathematically equivalent half and half. The major part of our new staff comes from labor and management. We have a substantial portion who have had experience on both sides of the bargaining table, and a very small proportion who come out of either other Government agencies with related functions, or universities. Mr. DUNCAN. Are they attorneys? Mr. SIMKIN. Only a small percentage. There are some who are attorneys. Mr. MOORE. I would say most are attorneys who have never practiced law. They have a law degree. Mr. DUNCAN. You do not have a training program in the sense you take some with no experience whatsoever? Mr. MOORE. We do, but not completely without experience. Mr. SIMKIN. We have two or three trainees each year who do not have the requisite qualifications for moving in immediately as a mediator. We bring in two or three men each year as trainees, and they spend a year, sometimes as much as 2 years, at the national office, and then we gradually work them into mediation. But, for the most part, our mediators come from people who have qualifying background experience in the actual work of collective bargaining. Mr. DUNCAN. The Bureau apparently has allowed you seven additional mediators. How many did you ask for? Forty-five is the total of all types of positions. TWO-MAN OFFICES Mr. SIMKIN. We asked for either 20 or 21 mediators, and they gave us 7. The largest numer of additional people we asked for are secretaries for our two-man offices. This is a thing we have been battering away at for years and have not been able to get any movement. We have a number of two-man offices around the country without any secretarial help. Mr. DUNCAN. Will four stenographers back up seven mediators? Mr. SIMKIN. Yes. Mr. DUNCAN. If you were to get 21 mediators, you would need 12 stenographers, is that right? Mr. SIMKIN. It does not work out precisely in that ratio. This problem of the two-man station is our major problem. In our stations where we have three or more mediators, we do have a secretary; but in our two-man stations we are restricted in most of them to telephone answering service or the equivalent, which is really not satisfactory. When somebody is in trouble and wants a mediator, calls up and gets an answering service, it is not a satisfactory way to do business. We have been plugging on this secretarial help in terms of total expenditures, total efficiency. Mr. DUNCAN. How many of those two-man offices do you have which do not have secretaries? Mr. SIMKIN. Twenty at the present time. We asked for a secretary for each one of those and got turned down. Mr. DUNCAN. I think that is all I have. Mr. FOGARTY. Mr. Farnum. Mr. FARNUM. No questions. Mr. FOGARTY. Is there anything else you want to say, Mr. Simkin? Mr. SIMKIN. Not that I think of. Mr. FOGARTY. Thank you very much. |