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and that a lot of young fellows would rather not go 4 years, that they would rather go 2 years to a first-class technical institute of any one of a number of kinds, or one kind that deals with any number of technical things, pretty much in the sense of the Russian and German 2-year schools, you know, where they do a great job.

Of course, there are many young men or women who cannot afford to go to a 4-year college who would like to go to a 2-year technical institute and while they are working at their technical job, they could go to night school and get the degree if they want to pursue it also. Do we have any program or planning, starting last night, to develop nationwide a rash of such 2-year technical institutes in the German and Russian sense?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. This is, of course, a question Dr. Keppel could have responded to directly. It would not be part of our program. Mr. FLOOD. Are any of Keppel's men here?

Mr. RUTTENBERG. Howard Matthews.

Mr. FLOOD. Howard, will you take that question to Keppel? You can take a shot at it now if you wish and if you think Keppel should beef it up, that is all right.

Mr. MATTHEWS. We could provide for the record data on the 2-year technical type programs that have been generated by what was title A of NDEA providing for the training of highly skilled technicians and occupations essential to the national defense, as you may remember that feature of the act. That became a permanent part of the Vocational Education Act of 1963.

Mr. FLOOD. I know that, but what I am talking about is, Are we putting a rifle on it? Does anybody care?

Mr. MATTHEWS. Yes, and there has been renewed emphasis on this type of an institution. Many States have created special boards to administer, promote, and develop this type of institute.

Mr. FLOOD. You will see statistics from Russia in which they say "The United States graduated 20,000 engineers last June. We graduated 35,000. See how bad you look."

The only gimmick is that 25,000 are 2-year technical institute people and not 4-year engineering degree men at all.

Mr. MATTHEWs. We could supply, Mr. Flood, for the record the number of people who would be graduated from the 2-year technical institute programs in the more sophisticated technology.

Mr. FLOOD. How do you generate interest in these things? These are all private schools? Can they be created by the States?

Mr. MATTHEWS. These are creatures of the State. In many States they have passed special area technical school legislation and created a special board. Virginia is a recent one to do this. They will have a series of technical institutes that will serve specified geographic regions of the State.

Mr. FLOOD. What do you people think about this? I think this is a great idea. Mr. MATTHEWs. We couldn't agree with you more. For every engineer-it depends on his field of engineering-it takes from eight to a dozen of these highly skilled technicians to support his work.

59-316-66-pt. 1--18

Mr. FLOOD. I am talking about females as well as males in these technical training areas. All kinds.

Mr. MATTHEWS. The program for women in this area has not developed as rapidly as it has for men, but I think under the new legislation as well as the new employment opportunities that are evolving for women it will develop faster.

Mr. FLOOD. I am not talking about a community college. I am not talking about a so-called junior college. You know exactly what I am talking about.

Mr. MATTHEWS. We are talking about exactly the same thing.

I would just add this: These are not always a discreet administrative unit of 2 years' duration in a building or a set of buildings in the campus style. In some States this technical institute takes its form as a division of a university.

Mr. FLOOD. I have no quarrel with that. There might be some virtue to that.

Mr. MATTHEWS. It has been taking numerous configurations, but the type of a program you are describing is evolving perhaps more rapidly than many of us are aware of.

Mr. FLOOD. I am glad to hear it. I would like to see it go by leaps and bounds.

Mr. MATTHEWS. We will provide information for the record on the types of graduates and the sort of institute they are in.

Mr. FLOOD. I have always been impressed by this type of education in continental Europe where it is a traditional thing.

(The information requested follows:)

DIRECTORY OF SCHOOLS OFFERING TECHNICAL EDUCATION PROGRAMS

UNDER TITLE VIII OF THE NATIONAL DEFENSE EDUCATION ACT OF 1958,
FISCAL YEAR 1964

INTRODUCTION

This directory, prepared by the Technical Education Unit, will assist vocational educators, employers, and cooperating agencies to obtain additional information about technical education programs.

It contains the names of schools, their locations, and types of technical education programs conducted in the States. Inclusion in this list is not necessarily an official approval by the State or the U.S. Office of Education of a particular program. It simply indicates those schools, programs, and courses reported by the States through various methods for fiscal year 1963, and it is possible that a school, program, or course might have been included or excluded. Types of programs and courses are indicated in the right-hand column of each page. The letter "S" designates a preparatory type program at the secondary level, and "PS" designates a preparatory type program at the post secondary level. The letter "E" designates a supplementary type course.

A preparatory type program is designed to offer preemployment training to those persons who have had little or no previous education or experience in the field of work for which the instruction is organized. Supplementary type

courses are designed to provide supplementary instruction for those persons who have had substantial previous education and experience in the field of work for which the instruction is offered.

Directory

[Code: S-Secondary program; PS-Post secondary program; E-Extension courses (supplementary)]

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[Code: S-Secondary program; PS-Post secondary program; E-Extension courses (supplementary)]

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Directory-Continued

[Code: S-Secondary program; PS-Post secondary program; E-Extension courses (supplementary)]

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Dorsey Adult High School, Los Angeles.
Franklin Adult High School, Los Angeles.
Fremont Adult High School, Los Angeles.
Gardena Adult High School, Los Angeles..
Garfield Adult High School, Los Angeles.
Hollywood Adult High School, Los Angeles.
Huntington Adult High School, Los Angeles.
Jefferson Adult High School, Los Angeles.
Jordan Adult High School, Los Angeles..
Lincoln Adult High School, Los Angeles.
Los Angeles Metropolitan College, Los Angeles...
Manual Arts Adult High School, Los Angeles.
Monbebello Adult High School, Los Angeles..
North Hollywood Adult High School, Los Angeles.
Reseda Adult High School Los Angeles....
San Fernando Adult High School, Los Angeles..

South Gate Adult High School, Los Angeles.. University Adult High School, Los Angeles.. Van Nuys Adult High School, Los Angeles..

Venice Adult High School, Los Angeles. Washington Adult High School, Los Angeles.. East Los Angeles College, Los Angeles...

PS

PS E

Mechanical.

E

Mechanical drafting and design. Electrical.

Mechanical producation..

Metallurgy..

Plastics.

E

Electronic data processing

PS E

Electronics..

PS E

Mechanical drafting and design.

PS E

Metallurgy

E

Technical illustration..

E

PS E

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Electronic data processing.

Electrical

Electronics. Civil..

Electronics.

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