Senator BAYH. You might, if you could, let us have those pictures temporarily, so that we could show them to the committee when we are ready to consider the bill in executive session. I think they tell the story much more dramatically than anyone can put it in words. Mr. CATON. I would be glad to. I would be glad to leave them. Thank you.

Senator BAYH. We have another witness who has gone to considerable trouble to appear before the committee today, Mr. Robert O'Neal. who is the State police superintendent in Indiana. Mr. O'Neal has had a long and distinguished career as a law-enforcement officer, and I might point that his experiencein government has been very broad; he has served as a public official on the city-county levels, on the State level, and on the Federal level.

Mr. O'Neal played a key role in helping Indiana struggle back to its feet after the terrible tragedy that struck the State on Palm Sunday this year. Governor Branigin designated Mr. O'Neal as the coordinator of all State disaster programs. Mr. O'Neal, and, it should be pointed out, all of the State police, did a magnificent job under very trying conditions following the tornadoes which destroyed or damaged wide areas in Indiana.

Mr. O'Neal, we are very pleased that you are able to be with us today so that we can draw upon your expert knowledge. It is my understanding, sir, that you are prepared to discuss a survey you have made on loses suffered by victims of the recent disaster in Indiana. Is this correct?

STATEMENT OF ROBERT O'NEAL, SUPERINTENDENT OF POLICE, STATE OF INDIANA

Mr. O'NEAL. Yes, that is right. Actually, the survey we made was just taken yesterday, and I stayed up late last night compiling the data.

Senator BAYH. Well, we certainly appreciate that.

Mr. O'NEAL. I was thinking that the committee might be able to make use of some fresh, up-to-date material that would show the terrible situation many of these people in our State are in.

Mr. Chairman, I do not have a prepared statement, but I have a chart which shows the results of the survey and I would be happy to explain the results to the committee to the best of my ability.

Senator BAYH. Fine. First, though, I wonder if you could tell us something about the mechanics of your survey. How many people did you contact, and how did you select them?

Mr. O'NEAL. My men talked to 60 people in Indiana yesterday to ask about their personal losses. We wanted to find out how much the losses amounted to and what share of the losses had been reimbursed. Senator BAYH. I see. Where were these interviews conducted? Mr. O'NEAL. Well, we went into the areas that received the worst blows on Palm Sunday. We talked to people in the towns of Russiaville, Greentown, Koontz Lake, and Dunlap. We also contacted some farmers in St. Joseph County and some trailerowners in Elkhart County. We were trying to get a balanced picture.

Senator BAYH. How did you decide whom to interview in these various communities?

Mr. O'NEAL. Well, Mr. Chairman, we didn't follow any special plan. My men just talked to the first people they came in contact with after they got to a community.

Senator BAYH. In other words, you got what could be described as a random sampling?

Mr. O'NEAL. Yes, sir; I believe that is correct.

Senator BAYH. Now then, I wonder, if you could tell us something about the results of the survey. What did you discover?

Mr. O'NEAL. I would like to start out by saying that the overall results of the survey are shocking to me. The people in these areas that were hardest hit by the tornadoes are a great deal worse off than I would have guessed.

In Russiaville, we contacted three business places, two farmers, and five homeowners and the total real estate loss for these people was $270,900. This averages about $27,000. I had better point out that these figures are based on estimates made by the property owners themselves, not our estimates. We found that of this loss of $270,900, $155,900 was covered by insurance. There was no other reimbursement, so the total real estate loss for these people we contacted in Russiaville was $115,000. These same 10 people reported personal property losses totaling $233,000. Of this total, $90,400 was covered by insurance and there was no other reimbursement, so the personal property loss was $142,000.

My people also contacted 10 homeowners in Greentown and the real estate losses of these homeowners came to a total of $188,996. In this case, insurance covered $137,596 of the loss. There was no other reimbursement, so the total loss is $51,400. The 10 homeowners in Greentown reported that their personal property losses totaled $70,940. Their insurance covered $46,440 of this, so the loss was $24,500.

In Koontz Lake, the 10 homeowners we talked with said their real estate losses amounted to a total of $125,000, so the average here was $12,500. The insurance policies of the 10 homeowners in Koontz Lake covered $74,748 of the loss. The Red Cross provided reimbursement of $128, so the total real estate loss was $50.552. The personal property losses in Koontz Lake for the 10 families we contacted, were $42.000. Of this, $18,100 was reimbursed by insurance and $470 was reimbursed by the Red Cross. This left a total personal property loss of $23,900.

We also got in touch with 10 homeowners in Dunlap, and they said their total real estate losses amounted to $92,350, which means that the average was a little more than $9,000. The insurance coverage for these people took care of $38,400 of the loss and there was no other reimbursement, so the total loss was $53,950. The personal property losses of these 10 families in Dunlap came to a total of $45,000. Their personal property insurance covered $8,600 of the loss. They have not received any other reimbursement for their personal property losses, so the total loss was $36,400.

Mr. Chairman, my men who went into St. Joseph County yesterday got in touch with 10 farmers to determine their losses. The 10 farmers that we talked to said their real estate losses-this would include such things as houses and barns-amounted to a total of $382,500. This averages out to a loss of about $38,000 for each of the farmers. Of the total loss, $169,424 was covered by insurance and there was

some other minor reimbursement. The unreimbursed real estate losses for the 10 farmers was $212,466. These same 10 farmers reported personal property losses totaling $48,555, of which $27,010 was taken care of by insurance and $130 was covered by the Red Cross, which left a total unreimbursed loss of $21,415.

In Elkhart County, my men contacted 10 trailer owners who sustained heavy losses. The losses to the real estate or I should say to the trailers themselves-came to a total of $48,100, or an average of about $4,800 per trailer. The insurance carried by these 10 families covered $34,550 of the $48,100 loss to the trailers. In the area of personal property, the 10 trailer owners sustained a total loss of $23,000, of which $10,300 was covered by insurance. This left a total personal property loss of $12,700.

That completes the statistics we gathered from the six areas, Mr. Chairman, and now I would like to give you the totals from these six

areas.

Senator BAYH. Fine.

Mr. O'NEAL. Well, first I will read the figures regarding real estate losses. The total real estate loss of the 60 people we contacted was $1,107,846. The total amount of insurance coverage for the real estate was $610,618. The Red Cross reimbursed $163 of the real estate loss and other sources reimbursed $575 of the loss.

Senator BAYH. Excuse me, please. You said that other sources provided reimbursement of, I believe, $575. Do you know what these other sources are?

Mr. O'NEAL. I am assuming, Mr. Chairman, that the other sources would mean charity provided by church groups, and so forth.

The total personal property loss of the 60 people we contacted was $462,495. Of this, $200,850 was taken care of by insurance policies, and the Red Cross provided reimbursement of $600, which left a total loss of $260,915.

I think, Mr. Chairman, that this pretty well covers the information on the chart I have with me.

Senator BAYH. Well, I must say that the figures you have been going over are striking and revealing. The magnitude of the losses of the persons you interviewed is truly staggering. Even more staggering, it seems to me, is the proportion of the losses that has not been covered by insurance and for which there does not seem to be any potential reimbursement.

The survey you have taken is dramatic evidence of the great need for increased assistance to individual private citizens in disaster areas. The main purpose of the legislation we are considering is to meet this need.

There is one thing I would like to make clear for the record, Mr. O'Neal. It is my impression that all the losses you referred to were the estimates of the property owners themselves. Is this correct?

Mr. O'NEAL. Yes, sir; this is true, and it is possible, of course, that some of the estimates were exaggerated. I guess it is natural for a fellow to have a slightly inflated notion of what his property is worth, but I really feel that the figures we got are not very far off the beam, Mr. Chairman. I honestly believe that they are pretty accurate.

Senator BAYH. Yes; and even if there is some exaggeration in losses it wouldn't significantly alter the total picture regarding the difference between loss and reimbursement.

I think it would be helpful if we could include your chart in the record, if you could supply us with a copy.

Mr. O'NEAL. I would be happy to do so, Mr. Chairman.

Senator BAYH. Are there any other observations you would like to make at this time?

Mr. O'NEAL. No; I don't believe so.

Senator BAYH. Well, I want to thank you very much for breaking into your busy schedule so that you could be with us today. The information you have given will be extremely helpful to the committee. (The tabulation supplied by Mr. O'Neal is as follows:)