disposed of, certain forms and regulations have to be followed. Where an individual wants to draft a will, I would recommend and suggest that he procure competent advice beforehand so that the proper and regular form is followed.

It may be the question of a witness, having 1 witness when you should have 2 witnesses; in the State of Georgia they have to have 3 witnesses. Those matters mean a great deal in the execution of a

will.

But I am sure Mr. Lee and his department will return the matter just as soon as he can, and I am pleased to know he secured some money for that purpose.

Mrs. EDMO. I would like to add to that, proper interpreters to go along. In one case there was interpreting done by the family of this testatrix, and the interpreter was her own daughter, and she didn't realize what it was all about. She had a medical condition and she was considered incompetent.

Mr. SHUFORD. All of those things come in in the execution of the will.

Mrs. EDмo. That is reason why I would like some sort of a congressional action.

Mr. SHUFORD. I think that could be handled right here by your Indian agency, if someone wants a will. Of course, you do not know when one is going to die real quick.

Mrs. EDMO. Not all of them are made on the Government form. That is the trouble, because when they come here to check there is no Government will made. It is in town with some lawyer that may have some other purpose in mind.

Mr. SHUFORD. That is up to the individual Indian then, I think. If he is properly advised, he will go to the proper person to execute his will. I do not think that is your agency here or the Indian Bureau in Washington or the Congress. I think the individual Indian must realize that he has got to go to the proper person to have his will drawn.

Mrs. EDмO. They don't realize that, though.

Mr. SHUFORD. They ought to be instructed in that, and I think it would be a good thing for the council to tell them about that, and post notices in the Indian language and also in the American language as to what they should do in fixing a will. But that is up to the individuals. It is up to the individual everywhere as to the proper disposition of his property.

Mrs. EDMO. I am talking about the procedures. I am not talking about the person making the will.

Mr. SHUFORD. I am talking about the procedures too. Both of us are talking about exactly the same thing.

Mrs. EDмo. I think from a white man's standpoint, it is different compared to an Indian.

Mr. SHUFORD. There is no difference at all.

Mrs. EDмO. If you had any contact with Indians, you will know. Mr. SHUFORD. Suppose you want to make a will and you do not know anything about it, and I want to make a will and I do not know anything about it. We both should go to somebody who knows something about it, and if we go to the wrong person, then it is our fault. It is your fault and it is my fault. But I think we ought to be told

to whom we should go to get that instruction about the procedure of making the will, and it is a procedural matter, no question about it. Mrs. EDмO. But what if the person making the will is declared incompetent?

Mr. SHUFORD. That is a question for the courts to determine.

Mrs. EDмo. It has already been settled in this one case that this person is incompetent.

Mr. SHUFORD. In all courts you will find it. That is one of the reasons we have all these contests on the wills, because some child does not think he got enough, or some niece or nephew thought they should have been included in the will and they were not included in it, and they jump right up then and say that both you and I did not have the ability to make a will. That is where lawsuits get started.

Mrs. EDMO. Another thing now, we are incorporated here in our governing, and in our governing counsel made a new ruling that we were to show our marriage licenses to show we were married by law. Then this examiner comes along and says that common-law marriages are to be recognized.

Mr. SHUFORD. That is up to your State law.

Mrs. EDмо. They tell us one thing, and then somebody else comes along and tells us another. So there we are. That creates another difference here.

Mr. SHUFORD. I think your lawyer could advise you on that without any difficulty at all, but I do not know the State law of Idaho. I do not know what the provision is as to common-law marriages. Some States recognize a common-law marriage and some do not. My State does not recognize a common-law marriage. Our sister State of South Carolina does recognize a common-law marriage. So I think that your counsel could advise you as to the law of Idaho. I do not know what that would be.

Mrs. EDMO. They evidently go by the State law, but if a Government official comes along and says one thing, we don't know who to believe. Mr. SHUFORD. I would go to the man who knows.

Mrs. EDMO. Who would it be?

Mr. SHUFORD. I think I would get a competent lawyer and let him tell me whether or not a common-law marriage is valid.

Mrs. EDMO. I am asking you for the benefit of those in the audience who might not know.

Mr. SHUFORD. I am not competent to advise you on Idaho law. I will tell you that.

Mrs. EDMO. On this vocational training, I think there has been quite a misunderstanding especially among our veterans. A lot of them lose out on their GI training because they did not know the time limit on the Korean GI and previously.

Mr. SHUFORD. That is lack of information, and that is not limited simply to the Indians but applies to a great many of the white citizens. Mrs. EDMO. Hardly any here got any training under it. That age group that went to that war I think should be given some sort of a Vocational training, because most of that group is the group that runs around and drinks and it is their children they are having a lot of trouble with.

Mr. SHUFORD. That is a little beyond the jurisdiction of this committee, the question of the GI training. That has been established as the law for all GI's, Indians, whites, Italians, anyone else.

Mrs. EDмo. It has lapsed I know.

Mr. SHUFORD. It has lapsed and although Mr. Haley and I both are on the Veterans' Affairs Committee, nevertheless we are sitting now on the Indian Affairs Committee. But I do know that the time has expired, and it applies to Indians, Italians, Greeks, and anyone that was in the service. I do not know what the disposition of the Congress will be as to the extension of that period. It is still open for the Korean veterans, but for World War II veterans it has expired. There is some time on the GI housing. I think that runs out in 1958. Mrs. EDMO. That is another thing on loans now. The GI's here on the Reservation, some of them were denied, I think, the use of GI funds here on the reservation.

Mr. SHUFORD. That has been quite a controversy. Congress passed a bill this year to extend the time and put in more money for direct loans on the direct-loan program for GI's. They increased the amount of the loan. It passed the Congress with the 412 percent interest rate still intact and was vetoed by the President. So we are now working under the old law which will expire in 1958. So the GI would have to come under that program regardless of what race he belongs to.

What the disposition of the Congress will be as to that I am not in a position to state because it will have to go before the Veterans' Affairs Committee and be voted again in the Congress, and in my personal belief, although I have no reason for it, the law will be extended but the interest rate will be increased. I think that will be the disposition of the Congress regardless of the individual opinion as to whether the interest rates should be increased or not. Is that your understanding, Mr. Haley?

Mr. HALEY. That is my understanding.

Mrs. EDмO. Having gone through the reservation and seen the different homesteads, it makes you wonder when you see a white neighbor in the acreage beyond another Indian, why their buildings are run down.

Mr. SHUFORD. The white ones or the Indian ones?

Mrs. EDмO. The Indian ones.

Mr. SHUFORD. Maybe the white man just got out and did a little carpentry work around the home that the Indian did not do. I know at my house it needs some carpentry work out there, but I cannot even drive a nail straight.

Mrs. EDмO. My old man can carpenter but hasn't got enough money to go out and even buy drill with. Those of us that were-what do you call it? They screened us off because we were supposed to have more money or something. We are trying to build our homes and send our kids to school. We can't even go to town to get a title 1-A loan to cover our buildings because we live on the reservation.

Mr. SHUFORD. I think there has been a curtailment of all of those loans recently because, you might say, the high-interest rates has made it undesirable for some of the loaning companies to make loans. I do not know your particular situation, but you might run into something on heirship land that might have some effect. I would not know the particular situation. But there should be no difference. If you have title to the property and the proper credit rating, or a proper risk, the banks should make you a loan just the same as they

would anybody else. But I do know there has been difficulty in procuring FHA loans and other loans because the companies just have not been making the loans at this particular time.

For several months the building industry seems to be suffering somewhat from that situation.

Mrs. EDмo. On the medical end, since we are an incorporated tribe and according to Webster's-I could read it. It is: "To share equally, to be incorporated."

Mr. SHUFORD. Not necessarily to share equally in an incorporation. An incorporation is just making a corporation which is just a third person, you might call it, that steps in there. It usually takes three to make a corporation. We agree to do certain things and we incorporate. All that does is relieve us of personal liability and put the management of the affairs of the corporation in the hands of a board of directors. That board of directors can determine what should be done.

Now if you should happen to have two shares and I should have one share, then you can outvote me and do what you want to do instead of what I want to do.

But here as members, it is not as harsh as I have outlined it, because what they usually do the board of directors are your councilis meet and find out what each one wants to do, and they work in the best interest of all of them. But it does not mean equal shares for each individual.

Mrs. EDMO. On our claims, I understand our medical program is going to be an offset of what they are giving us now. Is that true? Mr. SHUFORD. I do not know. I am not advised on that.

Mrs. EDMO. If we are shareholders in this corporation, why don't they treat us all alike and give us, the few that they have screened off, the same share as the next person?

Mr. SHUFORD. What do you mean by screening off?

Mrs. EDмo. There are a few individuals here they will not take care of medically.

Mr. SHUFORD. Is that because of the competency of the individuals? Mrs. EDMO. I am just as poor as the next person.

Mr. SHUFORD. I do not know that detail.

Mrs. EDмo. Whether my face don't hang right or what. That is what I think.

Mr. SHUFORD. We will look into that because I do not know the answer to that question at all.

Mrs. EDмо. That is all I have.

Mr. HALEY. Thank you.

Mrs. EDMо. Thank you for listening.

Mr. SHUFORD. Thank you very much for talking with us.

Mr. HALEY. Call the next witness.

Dr. TAYLOR. Mrs. Teola Truchot.

STATEMENTS OF TEOLA TRUCHOT AND EVA PHIPPENY,

FORT HALL, IDAHO

Mrs. TRUCHOT. I am supposed to talk on credit to you, so our chairman is here. I put my name down yesterday. So she will take my place.

Mr. HALEY. Come forward. Have you a written statement?

Mrs. PHIPPENY. Of what, please?

Mr. HALEY. Of what you are going to talk about.

Mrs. TRUCHOT. We got something this morning.

Mr. HALEY. I am trying to determine if you have a written statement or are you going to just speak to the committee?

Mrs. TRUCHOT. In the first place, we were told that certain people were supposed to talk.

Mr. HALEY. Certain people were. Who told you?

Mrs. TRUCHOT. Yes, they were picked. And yesterday when we came to the meeting I came and asked you if anybody was allowed to talk, and you said yes, to put your name down, so that is what I done. Mr. HALEY. Fine. Now you are here, will you identify yourself for the record?

Mrs. TRUCHOT. Mrs. Teola Truchot, member of the Shoshone and Bannock Tribe. I live on the reservation at Fort Hall, Idaho. Mr. HALEY. And this lady?

Mrs. PHIPPENY. Eva Phippeny, chairman of the credit committee. Mr. HALEY. Do you reside here on the reservation?

Mrs. PHIPPENY. I do. I am a member of the Bannock Tribe.

Mr. HALEY. And you are speaking on your own behalf or you represent someone else?

Mrs. PHIPPENY. I represent the Credit Association of the Bannock Tribe.

Mr. HALEY. You may proceed. I want to warn the witnesses that we have 6 witnesses and we have approximately an hour and 15 minutes. I would like for you to be able to present your matters to the committee, but we would like for you to be as brief as possible.

Mrs. PHIPPENY. Will you let me ask a few questions first? What is this committee? Are they investigating Government reports or are they investigating tribal reports? Or who are you representing here and what kind of a committee is it?

Mr. HALEY. This committee is the Subcommittee on Indian Affairs and it is here representing nothing other than asking the people to come here and present any problem that they think the Congress or this committee might be helpful on that you have here.

Mrs. PHIPPENY. I have not received a letter like Mrs. Truchot. I did this morning that the credit committee-what does this consist of, will you tell us?

Mrs. TRUCHOT. It seems we are being called before the business council because we haven't done our work right. I haven't read it all. It was just handed to me a while ago. We have codes and bylaws and manuals and all kinds of circulars and policies and rules and regulations we are working under. We would like to know who is the head of it. We are not beating around the bush or anything. We have gone to everybody to find out about this and that and evidently nobody understands the credit problem here. We would like something done about it.

Mr. HALEY. I am sure that I do not know. That is the reason the committee is here to try to find out something about your problems. This committee is willing to listen to any matter that you want to bring before the committee.

Mrs. PHIPPENY. Shall we talk about delinquent loans? We have over $60,000 out in delinquent loans and it looks to us like all we will be able to collect is $20,000 of it. The security has all been sold. We