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aren't gotten the money yet?

Tou pe vatus of your application, if I may ask! si vereral plans. The one they prefer is mi participation, in which you would find a

Vis no would lend the money and service the vi give a guarantee of 75 to 90 percent, and

*OURS le 11., to 2 percent brokerage. - to note that several of the lending agencies ... ent of the SBA. So, they questioned me as to

risk. They liked the FHA type of loan. nsurt, and it is coming, we can go to the SBA por pe cutal sum on 6 percent interest for a period not

all the loan need not be amortized.
Licita deal with them, if it gets down to that point wis!

most te best instrument, in my judgment. We should
op vr and we should not be required to pay any 6 per-

theaty to twenty-five years is what we really need.
pied. If you had a lower rate of interest and a longer

doi the loan would stretch out over that period of time.
is, vir; 20 years-
... 112. Or you could amortize it out and pay a reasonable

the spent

Trin Ion, sir; absolutely. We don't want to be given any. M. WER. Do you have any other questions?

8.113 1111. No, That is all.

in CO DWATER. Would you study that and, within the next con uns an info within the next week, at your convenience, let the com

inst what you think of that language?

with mother, but I think your problem is answered in the Hipide poolest there, at least as far as answering the problem of the manent being in competition with the private nursing home.

is the committee would appreciate your opinion on that, be-
Telephone to consider that, too.
1 Hent i buall comsel with our executive director,

Hotels in Duur. Do you have any other statement to make?
Vi vint So; He have not, Jir. Chairman, except to thank you

tripartimity to have appeared before you and to congratulate Per primiteres in wediul Representative Wolverton's committee, for The man immer aflorts they are making relative to the public health

that all the l'ated States, PARA Ilu Didn't you have some other statements or some other

Hi Vand I have a statement from a young lady from Washington, Hilinin türle Murphy, that I would like to have extended upon Wher crisis and if it would be possible to presume upon the com

if it it iery short statement--I would like to ask that she Hilties this committee.

Posterfont tou. Vy problem is that I have an appointment at
Thor Ilul Iono-pin lö minutes,

lion moule care to be chairman and remain here, Senator
mutta. Twill be happy to do so.
Sarnalen DWATER. I hate to leave.

Senator Hill. You have to be on time.
Mr. Muse. Mr. Chairman, gentlemen, this is Mrs. Lucia Forde
Murphy from the State of Washington.
Senator Hili. Mrs. Murphy.


Mrs. Murphy. Thank you very much. I am Lucia Forde Murphy from Spokane, Wash., Mr. Chairman. I am here in the Nation's Capital at the request of certain nursingbome administrators who comprise the Inland Empire Association of Licensed Nursing Homes, with headquarters in Spokane, Wash. The group is an affiliate of the Washington Association of Licensed Nursing Homes.

I have traveled across the country for the privilege of joining with others to appear before and alert your committee, Mr. Chairman, to certain aspects of S. 2758 that seem ill advised, economically unfeasible, and socially unsound.

That there has not been sufficient research into the whole area of nursing homes and the health problems that they must solve is adequately testified to by what the Secretary of Health, Education, and Welfare has not been able to tell this committee or Representative Wolverton's committee in the House.

1 urge you, Mr. Chairman, when you reread the Secretary's testimons you will discover little factual data on the construction cost of nursing homes; vague reference to the cost for per-patient day care. This cost is estimated between $2 per day to $8 per day, leaving us in doubt as to whether the Secretary's committee was referring to boarding homes for the aged or nursing homes.

I think that as you reread the testimony concerning nursing homes you will find that the basis of the study is predicated on trends, theories, estimates, and speculation.

, On this basis you are being asked to venture into a field completely foreign to the original intent of the Hill-Burton Act. As was pointed out by Representative Pelley when he addressed the House of Representatives on March 9, there is no need for Federal gtants of money to care for the aged population in the State of Washington. At that time he said:

Dr. Cronin, of the Department of Health, Education, and Welfare assured tue in our State of Washington a good job is being done by private enterprise.

From an economic point of view, this bill would appear to waste your taxpayers' money, at least as far as the State of Washington is concerned. That portion of $2 million that would be made available to individual States for survey, contemplated under the terms of this bill, is not needed in my State.

In keeping with the initiative of a well-informed citizenry, there has been formed in Spokane, Wash., the Spokane Gerontology Volunteers composed of citizens representing 100 local organizations and who have already begun a survey into the needs of our elder citizens.

In that connection, Mr. Chairman, I would like to submit this chart for the record. Senator Hill. It may be received. (The chart referred to is as follows:)


"Every man should be encouraged to live his whole lifen T. E. Dorpat, Gen. Chairman

zone member act as -ADVISORY BOARD 3 Mombers

Secretary - Treas.

One Momber
Publicity Chairman


Ch. Social

ch. Visitation


Contact Transportation
Learn neods

af all homes | Tours
Type of pa- Socials

size and

Receptivo Op-

Large Loca-
tion Map


tated Pa-


Movics slides 16 m.m. Vicwmastors Travelogues 8 m.m.


Card Par-

In and

away from Home

Cheer Bas




Flower Music Letter Woning
All Homes Programs. For all incapaci.

Records tated members in
Days Christmas

all Homes
Dining Music

Falls Sings

Approcia- Crafts for

all Homes


Service Chaitman Report Each month,

Oporation Policy 1. Service to Receptive Homos Only 2. Volunteers must maintain service Record. 3. Volunteer Workor must have ID Card

Workers must be screened by Organization Representative. Each Organization must serve under its own identity. Service avards prosented appropriately

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Mrs. Murphy. The $2 million appropriation for survey is unneces-
sary as most facts and figures are on hand in the offices of the various
States and Federal agencies.

Upon completion of this enterprising venture, these volunteers will
begin to share the problems of their fellow men.
These volunteers are not earning dollars, but certificates of which
they are most proud, showing man-hours given.

This is an example of what communities of enterprising people will
and can do without the spending of our tax dollar.

It is also with some interest that we in the State of Washington
note the estimate of $8,000 made by the Department of Health, Edu-
cation, and Welfare as the per bed cost of construction for what must
be presumedly the first-class nursing homes. However, in Spokane
the latest places for a 150-patient home will be built for $2,500, a
2-bedroom, or $4,500 complete with furniture and 2-piece plumbing.
Senator Hill. Two piece what?
Mrs. MURPHY. Two-piece plumbing in each one.
Senator Hill. Plumbing.
Mrs. Murphy. Socially, the whole concept of making, generous
Feleral grants to so-called nonprofit groups is neither desirable nor
within the scope of good sociological planning,

The idea of a nursing home is everything that those words imply,
and specifically, they imply professional nursing care in a home

It is easy to become too altruistic about the problems of our aged
groups, and I do not mean to do this. What I mean to tell this com-
mittee is that in the State of Washington we have approached and, I
believe, solved our problems realistically.

In our homes in Washington we have created an atmosphere for our
aging population that we hope, and in most cases know, is a sub-
stantial substitute for the home life which our patients, either because
of neglect or misfortune, have been deprived.
Our nursing homes are, with the approval of local zoning authori-
ties and town and city officials, located very humanly within

the heart of our cities and townships. Here they are within easy communication of their families, local town and city officials, and in most cases close to medical and hospital facilities in the event these facilities are needed.

Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, the Hill-Burton Act, we in Washington feel, has served its most worthwhile purpose in rural areas,

An extension of this act, we feel, into the field of nursing home care will be the first step toward integrating nursing homes with hospital facilities and thereby destroying the very concept of the nursing homes.

Such integration is bound to bring the nursing homes into the heart of the metropolitan area wherein are usually situated the hospital facility, and this very great and humane measure, the Hill-Burton Act, will have deviated from its original purpose, from service to the people to the paradoxical purpose of causing the aged and chronically ill to go where the facilities are in order to make them economically sound.


Thank you.

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Senator Hill. How many homes do you have in the State of Washington, Mrs. Murphy?

Mrs. Muruy. We have 262 licensed nursing homes, I think
Senator Hill. Two hundred and sixty-two?

Mrs. MURPHY. Two hundred and sixty-two. We have 51 in
Senator Hill. Fifty-one homes in Spokane.
llow many beds do you have altogether; do you know?
Mrs. MC Pur. Einht thousand; a little more than eight thousand.
Senator HILL. Eight thousand.
Mrs. MERPILY. There are 500 vacant today.
Senator Hi. Five hundred vacant beds today?
Mrs. MURPHY. Five hundred.
Senator Hill. Five hundred vacant bevis today.
What do you attribute those vacancies to?

Mrs. MrrPuy. A great many of the aged people have been put in what they call senile institutions, which are State regulated.

Senator Hull Do you have any questions, Mr. Sneed?
I want to thank you very, very much.
Mrs. MURPHY. Thank you very much.

Senator Iluz. That concludes the presentation for the American
Association of Nursing Homes, does it?

Mr. MUSE. Yes, sir.
Senator Iul. Now, I noticed on the list here was a Mr. Latham.
1 he with your group?
Mr. Mrse He is here, Mr. Chairman.

Senator Il'li. Mr. Latham, I don't want to have to rush you, but I am going to have to leave here very shortly. I suppose you are here all the way from Indiana and you want to be heard.

Mr. LATHAM. Yes; we in Indiana usunlly like to be heard, and we are kind of loud sometimes.

Senator Hill. You may proceed, Mr. Latham.

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Mr. Litum. Thank you, sir. I will make every effort to be brief.

I might say, supplemental to the American Association's statement, we have specific statisties that insofar as Indiana is concerned refute certain claims in Birs. Hobby's report before the House of Representatives.

The admini-tration's decision to injert Federal aid into the nursinghome field, as announced in President Eisenhower's state of the l'nion mensave on January 18, 1954, was received by those of us in and con. nected with the nursing home profession with disbelief, consternation, and shock.

Even today, the motivation, therefore, is somewhat obscure, although, from recent events, exemplified by certain press publications, we feel we may conjecture, almost to the point of certainty, as to the moving force behind this unwarranted invasion of the field of private enterprise,

That the administration itself is somewhat uncertain as to the efficacy of this more may be inferred from the first section of the bill, section 611, S. 2758, which provides in part as follows:

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