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HUD says, "We will help you fix up your house," but these contractors, supposedly bonded, are doing shoddy work. What remedy is there for that?

Senator JOHNSTON. Well, that's a good comment. What we have got to do is get HUD on the ball and supervising these contractors. It is not enough just to have a bond, you have got to supervise those people and tell them that they can't get the work, they can't get their hands on those Federal dollars unless they stand behind their work. I'm glad you brought that to my attention, because I am going to communicate with the HUD people.

Mr. GEORGE. Now, I was stricken in 1976, I was in the hospital and we had contracted for this agency to have our home fixed. The city sent out, oh, several pages of violations, so they said. Now, those people that Desire employed got me out of the hospital bed-I had to get a pass from the doctor-I had just been operated on on my stomach to come down there to them.

They say, “Well, your house"-let's see, it was $16,000, roughly speaking at $92.50 a month and I said, "Oh, we couldn't catch ahold of a bill like that." I said, "In the first place, I will be 60 years old next month, in October, and I will retire from the postal service and our economy could not afford $92.50 a month." I said, "I will tell you what, I know plenty of these people working in the trades. If you will lend me the money, we will even get them bonded, if necessary, because they will do the work and he said, "No, that's not the policy. We have a list of contractors."

So to me that appears that is a skin game going on.

[Laughter.]

Mr. GEORGE. You can laugh if you wish, but they have a specific list and you have to choose and they will send from that list and there is something wrong. Now, I am going to sign for $16,000 and you are going to put who you want to spend that money and then I have to sign a paper? That doesn't sound like sound business to me. They should have some leeway.

See, I go up town in the seventh ward, what they call the Creole section, and worked in the trades when I was a youngster and know those fellows that can build a house from the ground up, but because of certain circumstances, being minority, they didn't have the oppor tunity that the other people had, but this case has changed. But what I am saying is this: If the rules could be flexible enough that if you can get the people to meet the qualifications and standards and produce, that if you are going to sign for that money, let you spend it—you have got to pay it back-let you spend it like you can get the best results for it.

Senator JOHNSTON. I appreciate those comments on that. Let me ask you this along that line and I think Senator Eagleton alluded to this earlier. How do we get input from the elderly? Now, there has been some very good input here to me to make me aware of things, but how do you get it? How can we better improve the mechanism?

Mr. GATES. Well, we get it, Senator, first of all, we have 33 meal sites. We are in daily contact with the elderly. The New Orleans Council on Aging is a private, nonprofit agency funded through city, State, and Federal funds.

We are governed by a board of directors and we have various committees on that board that hold meetings that invite the elderly of the community to come in and give us the input. In other words, we would like to know what they want, what kind of health service are they giving priority. We are presently operating a dental van in conjunction with the city that was primarily funded for the use of children, but they found out they had a little extra time, so we are using the dental van 2 days a week now to provide dental care to the elderly. That was one of the priorities that this health advisory committee, composed of people from the neighborhoods said that they wanted.

Periodically we provide direct health services to different neighborhoods and we ask the people, "What do you want us to provide when we come out there?" It varies from neighborhood to neighborhood. We provide podiatry, and you think about that. As you get older, your feet develop callouses and things and podiatry is very expensive.

So to answer your question to get the input, we go to the people and ask them "What do you want?" We have our workers who are in daily contact with people who come back in and say, "Well, this person has a housing problem. The house needs to be repaired or the city needs to come in and do something about it healthwise," and we refer it into the system.

Senator JOHNSTON. Thank you very much, Mr. Gates.

Senator EAGLETON. There was a lady in the back that wanted to say something and then another gentleman over here.

STATEMENE OF MS. RAYBORN, A RESIDENT OF NEW ORLEANS

Ms. RAYBORN. They sent a man out to my house to see what had to be done and these people said it is almost ready to fall down and the Government is supposed to give me $5,500 and had me to come over there on Claiborne somewhere and sign up and they sent a man out and they examined the house. I don't know whether they got the $5,500 or not, but I haven't heard nothing else about it. So that is what I want to know. The $5,500, where did it go to? The Government is supposed to give me that to fix my house and some men come out and looked at the house and I signed up and I don't know whether the Government give them the money or what, but I ain't got none of it.

Senator EAGLETON. Well, I will tell you what, if you will talk with Mr. Kirk Melancon there he will try to get the specifics for you through Senator Johnston's office, that's what we call casework. I do this in Missouri, he does this in Louisiana. We try to help our constituents with particular personal problems just to see what has happened and why it happened and I'm sure Senator Johnston will do that for you.

Senator JOHNSTON. I will be glad to and you all remember Kirk Melancon, he is on my staff now, and if you will give him your name and number, we will be in touch with you.

Senator EAGLETON. This gentleman has his hand raised. Would you give us your name, please, sir.

STATEMENT OF W. B. BOWEN, A RESIDENT OF NEW ORLEANS

Mr. BOWEN. My name is W. B. Bowen. I am running for the mayor of the city of Kenner and I would like to ask, What is the contractor's take on a bid on $2,200,000 on the sewage plant if all the walls cave in before the plant opened. Who is responsible for it? Is the Federal Government responsible for it? The contractor just wants to give a quarter of a million dollars back, that's no good. Why doesn't the Federal Government step in and make him tear all those walls out and re-do them. If he doesn't want to do them over, he should give all that money back to the city and Federal Government, every nickel coming to them. There is so much of it going on it's pitiful.

That's why the younger generation and their children will be paying out their nose from now to Judgment Day. That's the same way with transportation. There is only two blocks from University, Airline Highway all the way out to University City and all of those new subdivisions are caving in right now. The contractor's are doing nothing.

The easiest way and the quickest way, it is the poor people holding the bag and that's all over the city of Kenner. Why doesn't the Federal Government step in and kick it before I take office, if I win this election. I know I am going to be mayor of Kenner and all them racketeers is going to be out in the cold.

I thank you.

[Applause.]

Senator EAGLETON. Give us your name and title, sir.

STATEMENT OF WILLIAM E. ROONEY, PRESIDENT, AREA AGENCY ON AGING, ACCOMPANIED BY MRS. FONTAINE FULGEM, ASSOCI ATE DIRECTOR

Mr. ROONEY. Senator, I am William E. Rooney. I am president of the Area Agency on Aging. I would like to introduce Mrs. Fontaine Fulgem who is the associate director of the Area Agency on Aging.

I would like to say completely aside that I am an employee of the Social Security Administration and Senator Johnston's office and Mrs. Bogg's office are in constant communication with problems and situations for social security. If anybody has a problem, before they go to the Senator Johnston or Mrs. Boggs, come on down to the Social Security office and ask for the supervising manager because we are there to help you and not to give you the runaround.

Senator, I was very happy in your opening statement to see this remark: "Most significantly, these amendments"-referring to the Older Americans Act amendments of 1973- "provided for the es tablishment of area agencies on aging to provide a comprehensive network of services for older persons at the local level."

I was also particularly happy to hear Mrs. Boggs and Mayor elect Morial refer to the area agencies on aging. I will mention that they are nationwide and we are on board in New Orleans now for the last 4 years. We feel that this is one of the most important parts of the network of services to the elderly, because we work very with the Council on Aging.

well

We receive the input from them at the parish level. We then find out what is necessary in the pointed area and we are in communication with the funding sources such as the Bureau of Aging services in Baton Rouge at the State level and the regional office in Dallas for the Agency on Aging, and so forth.

I did not want this hearing to adjourn without a statement that we feel that this is a workable situation. We feel that the area agencies on aging do a significant input. We have advisory committees made up of the consumer and the people from all walks of life and we are in a position then to funnel upward to the people that do the funding or funnel downward the solutions and the funding that

comes to us.

We feel that this is one of the better aspects of the act and we feel it should be strengthened, if necessary. I think that Mr. Gates from the lower level of the Council on Aging, which I had the pleasure of being president of, and I think the people from Baton Rouge will agree that they need somebody to be the focal point for the funnel in either direction, and we are that.

I thank you for letting me make my statement.

Senator EAGLETON. Thank you, Mr. Rooney.

We now have a panel of individuals who are participants in the activities of this nutrition center. I know we have had Mr. Crawford and Mr. Taylor. We will have Mr. Taylor, Mr. Crawford, we have got Bernade Capers, Elizabeth Williamson, she is here. OK, Mrs. Williamson, you can stay there.

ROSARIO VERGARA. She is not here? Cyria Chapoit and Albert Cooper.

Mr. WHEELER. As a member of the New Orleans Council on Aging board and president of the Coalition of Senior Citizens, I was happy to hear the various statements made today in reference to senior citizens. You asked a question as to what is done in order to receive the input of the grassroots.

Fortunately, here in Louisiana for the last several years we have had an annual Governor's conference.

Locally, we have had conferences in order to give the grassroots and representatives from Washington and others to come together and work out plans for doing work, giving aid to the senior citizens. We are very fortunate in having such a fine person as Mr. Gates as our director. He has been doing a very beautiful job.

While I am here I would like to say that our retiring mayor, Moon Landrieu, was very far sighted in developing a task force several years ago to get this senior citizens movement on foot. We are really appreciative of the fine efforts which he has made.

I want to thank you all for coming to be with us today.
Senator EAGLETON. Thank you, Mr. Wheeler.

[Applause.]

Senator EAGLETON. Now we have this panel of participants at the Sacred Heart Nutrition Center and I am going to call on them one at a time to tell us of their experiences, what they think is good about the program and what they think is bad and what can be done to make it better. We have heard from a couple of them already, but Perhaps they would have some additional thoughts that they would like to add.

So, I will go down the list as it appears on this typewritten sheet. Mr. Taylor, we heard from you a bit this morning, but are you a regular participant in this nutrition center here?

STATEMENTS OF MR. TAYLOR, MR. CRAWFORD, MS. CAPERS, MS. PILLAUT, MS. DENNERY, MS. WILLIAMSON, MS. CHAPOIT, AND MR. DEIST, A PANEL OF PARTICIPANTS AT THE SACRED HEART NUTRITION CENTER, NEW ORLEANS

Mr. TAYLOR. Senator Eagleton, I attend the center three times a week; Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and if they have certain other occasions that needs my presence, I usually attend that, also.

Now, at the center I have learned arts and crafts, how to get along with old people. [Laughter.]

Most people don't know it, but that's an art in itself, you might say, how to get along with old people. Most of them you will find are very congenial, others are rather grumpy, but if you have a very good disposition, you can get along with them. Not only that, make them smile and make them forget their troubles.

I can't think of any other things that I would like to say right now just off hand.

Senator EAGLETON. What could be done in connection with the center if there were more money, what other things could be done, what other programs and what other services could be usefully rendered in connection with this daily noon meal?

Mr. TAYLOR. With the daily noon meal?

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Senator EAGLETON. For instance, would it be useful from time to time to call Mr. Rooney, who is the social security man, and maybe he could send somebody out once a month, maybe once every weeks. It could be known that say on Friday, December 16, for instance, suppose if the word got out that on Friday, December 16, a man from the social security office was going to be here and if you had problems about your social security check, you weren't getting it on time, the wrong amount, medicare, if you weren't getting reimbursed or whatever, there would be a man here or a person here to help you with those problems. Would that be useful?

Mr. TAYLOR. That certainly would be most useful and I would certainly, most certainly, attend.

Senator EAGLETON. In my State and in the St. Louis area, which is my home city, we do have this kind of program. We work with social security and the nutrition people, and we arrange to have from time to time different representatives of these Federal agencies that are involved with matters pertaining to the elderly make calls in our various nutrition centers. So that, as the gentleman was say ing to Senator Johnston, this gentleman, he is from the next parish down the line, I think, and routinely the social security people come around. You tell them your problems or bring your papers with you, or they tell you what papers you will need and we found that very useful.

We are going to do it in Kansas City and we would hope to do it throughout the State, but frankly, it is easier to do in the major cities because the social security people and the Medicare people are

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