income to provide for their own children and the grandparents too. Senator LONG. I can appreciate what you have said. I do see, though, that there is a segment of our society that through perhaps no fault of their own, through their low income, the type of work they have done, they are unable to set up that type coverage. You and I can do it but there are many people that can't.

Mr. REED. Yes.

Senator LONG. And it does leave a great deal of consideration that must be given to that segment of our senior citizens who maybe through no fault of their own, maybe through some fault of their own, have not planned, but be that as it may, they still find themselves in that condition.

Mr. REED. Yes. We will have a favorable program available in the area of $6 to $8 per month.

Senator LONG. Thank you so much.
Mr. Oscar Dykes.

STATEMENT OF OSCAR DYKES

Mr. DYKES. Senator Long and Congressman Hall and your staff, I came up here to bring out a fact that I happen to be caught in the middle. My wife happens to be a little older than me which she won't admit, but she is about 412 years older than me and she has been drawing this old age assistance for the last 2 years of $57 a month. We lived in the city of Columbia, or anyway we got our mail there for 8 years. We went up there and sent our two youngest children through college. But the point I want to bring up, when we moved down here under this, we got or she got a new caseworker, and under this new social security law that was passed by Congress this last summer they say now that, well, anyway 2 months ago they cut her off. They tell me, "Mr. Dykes, you will have to go down and apply for your social security." "Well," I said, "before I apply I am going to find out just what the score is." So I came here to Springfield, to the social security office. I will be 65 myself next April. Well the lady that we talked to at the social security office, she says, "If you go ahead now and apply you will lose $595, the minimum." Now, that's the least I could lose. I don't know yet just what I would draw. They were supposed to write in but I haven't heard yet. But the point I want to bring out, they are trying to force me to take, you might say, in round numbers, $300 to lose $600. Well, that doesn't make good sense to me. So the lady was over to the house on Friday, she says, "Mr. Dykes, you have got until the 10th, if you don't do something now you are just dumb." "Well," I says, "I know I am dumb. I only got to the fourth grade in school." I do know that I'm not that dumb. I says, "If I die. between now and April I don't need it and if I live I can use it," so I says, "With the help of God we will get by some way."

Of course, I will bring out that I am a World War veteran, I draw a pension, and we are getting by on that, but the thing I want to bring out is why the Social Security and these other people can't get together. Now, you take in this case, this caseworker, she told me, she says, "Of all the people we have had that's taken this social security past 62, you are the only man that investigated and found out the truth about the thing and you are the only man that turned it down

in the Aurora district." Now, that's what she told me. I don't know whether that's the case or not but that's what the caseworker told me. So I just wanted to bring your attention to this because this is a very serious thing, you know, for one branch trying to force something on another, on us, that ain't, well, it just ain't ethical. You know whenever our people that's running things gets that dumb, why, we had better get to doing something about it.

That's all I have got to say.

Senator LONG. Thank you so much. We appreciate your statements, Mr. Dykes, and that's one of the problems that our committee is very much interested in, that is, the overlapping of the State and the Federal programs and conflicts that we find in them. It is certainly the desire of this committee to make those programs so they are meshed together and work together much better. I don't blame you, I think I'd wait until April, too, to collect that extra money. I think you used good judgment.

Dr. Glenn O. Turner. I believe the "O" is the middle initial and it is not an Irish name.

Doctor.

STATEMENT OF DR. GLENN O. TURNER

Dr. TURNER. Senator Long, it is indeed a privilege to say that I have had the opportunity to practice medicine here for going on to 15 years now. I have long wanted an opportunity to speak some views I have about these matters, and this is a pleasure to me. My problem is I don't know whether I can transfer my feelings into words as good as some of the people before me.

In my specialty I deal predominantly with older people. I do have a cross section of younger ages to deal with but primarily it is the older folks that I am concerned with. They are my life reality. I work with them all day. I think most patients of mine who are here could tell you that. I think I have made some observations that are of importance in such a hearing as this, and would like to expand on them a little bit.

I had prepared a little speech here but some events of today changed my plans. I had planned to be to the morning hearing here but my telephone rang this morning and the call was from the niece of a patient of mine who has been coming in for 10 years now. She said he would be 87 this coming Tuesday if he lived that long. He was brought in with a stroke. He came in and was cared for and I think is doing well now, but this points up what I think is a major problem. This gentleman has no social security. He is disabled, he has been in a nursing home for some years, he has no children. His nieces and nephews look after him primarily. This is an area I think in which we need to concentrate our efforts, those folks who have a need and who have not as yet qualified for any system of care that is within their reach. The niece and I had a discussion as I left the hospital. I told her I was coming here. She said, "Godspeed." She told me without my reminding her what this problem actually is. I think we need to help those who need help. We see it all around.

After leaving this gentleman this morning I went on the remainder of my rounds and along the way I saw four other of my older patients. Some of them are on social security, I don't know how

many, but those four patients all had private rooms. They had, through savings during their life, been able to choose and ask for the better accommodation of a single room, whereas this poor gentleman who has no social security cannot have such an opportunity. I say again I think we should help those who need to be helped and not place it on the basis that it is not applicable to those who I think are in the greatest need.

I have been tremendously impressed in my career by something that gives me pride in our country and that is the feeling of family pride, the feeling that we are a family. I hate to see this disrupted. I see older folks whose children take a great interest in them. They want them in their homes if they can, if they have a home of their own and can be seen about properly by the children, the children want them to stay there. Likewise, the older folks don't want to go to a nursing home. Let us see if we can't preserve this feeling of family responsibility which is a part of America. If we place, for example, nursing home care on a social security basis it is my strong feeling that when this becomes available it is going to break down this bond between our children and our elders. I think it would be bad. I think in order for a family to feel that they were getting their money's worth, so to speak, they would feel more or less obliged to take their elders and place them in a nursing home. I have been through this matter of prescribing nursing home care many times and I know it is painful to most of the elders and most of the children, and if we can somehow avoid placing it so that families have to take such action it would be very bad.

I appreciate this opportunity to talk.

Senator LONG. Thank you very much, doctor. Does anybody else now desire to be heard? we have here on our list.

That's the last name

May I say to you ladies and gentlemen, then, how delighted we are that you did come out here today. We didn't have quite as large a crowd today as we have had on some of these meetings but you have indicated a fine interest, it has been a fine cross section and I am sure that our committee has obtained some valuable suggestions and information that will be very helpful to us. If some of you do have a problem that you want to write to the committee about, or make some suggestions, the member of the staff there has some envelopes and stationery so that you can write to the committee. It will be placed in the record for the consideration of the committee. I thank you again for your attention and courtesy.

Dr. Hall, would you like to make a closing statement at this time? Dr. HALL. I want to thank you, Senator Long, and the members of the committee for coming here and holding these hearings. I think you have summarized it well, as we welcomed you in the begin ning and told you that you would have forthright and candid statements. I am sure that the committee has directly profited thereby. There is much that could be said and I certainly hope the committee will find a chance, at least, for some of its officers to visit our nursing homes in this city, including our Grand Acres and Sunshine Acres. I think that we have seen the true process of America at the crossroads at work here and I know that as one of our citizens so frankly said, we can get away from partisanship and get down to the problems of the senior citizens and thereby accomplish what is intended that

we should do for those who are needy, for those who are deserving, and for those who need all types of care because we still believe in the great commission.

Thank you for coming and we appreciate what you have done for our community.

Senator LONG. Thank you, doctor. We are grateful to all of you and express our appreciation again on behalf of the committee and the staff for your courtesy and cooperation. Thank you so much.

We will hold the record open for letters from any of you in the audience who did not have a chance to speak or from people who were unable to be here today, and they will be inserted at this point. (The letters referred to follow :)

Senator EDWARD LONG,

U.S. Senate.

SPRINGFIELD, Mo., December 18, 1961.

DEAR SIR: My opinion on the medical and nursing home problem for the aged is that it should be tied to Social Security so that it may be paid for over the working life of the individual. The law that was passed in the last Congress is of very little value to the average family drawing social security. As I understand it social security should in the future eliminate and replace old age pensions.

Insurance, such as that mentioned by Bob Reed at the meeting of your committee in Springfield does not meet the problem of old people.

Our Seventh District Representative in Congress seems to be opposed to social security in its entirety. As a matter of fact it seems to me that the only people he represents is the AMA and the John Birch Society.

I am one of the senior citizens being 71 years old and my wife is the same age. We have no children and would not want to live with them if we had. If the time should come that we had to go to a nursing home we would like for it to be a decent place in which to live.

Very truly yours,

WM. A. POTTER, 2073 Columbia Street.

SPRINGFIELD, Mo., December 12, 1961.

DEAR SENATOR LONG: Please don't force legislation upon people. Please don't increase our social security and other tax obligations. Presently, I am working over 4 months of each year to pay my tax obligations. Give the local communities an opportunity to take care of their own. RALPH POWELL, 2506 Catalina.

SPRINGFIELD, Mo., December 18, 1961. DEAR SENATOR LONG: I could think of several things to say after it was over, my wife and I are both retired from Government jobs and draw our annuity, and therefore are in much better circumstances than a great many of the older folks. We are now getting help on the hospital insurance; that was a great help to many of the older folks.

We have attended several of the meetings similar to the one you held at Drury. We were at a Governor's conference at Purdue University in West Lafayette, Ind., which lasted 2 days and was very interesting. We have visited several of the rest homes in our city, while they do fill a need for a lot of older folks, I hope that I never have to depend on one of them for care.

We are both past 75 so that it is hard to tell what we may have before us.

Respectfully,

H. F. HENDRICKS, 1609 Madaline Terrace.

Senator EDWARD V. LONG,

U.S. Senate, Washington, D.C.

SPRINGFIELD, Mo., January 7, 1962.

DEAR SENATOR: I am 71 years of age, married, a veteran of World War I and a retired Government civil service employee. Because my income, consisting entirely of Government civil service retirement annuity ($207 per month) and social security benefits ($65 per month) is in excess of $2,700 per annum, I am not permitted to be paid a veteran's nonservice disability pension of $78.75 per month unless I waiver enough of my civil service annuity to bring my income down to $2,700 per annum. In view of this situation I have made a waiver of $48 per month of my civil service annuity in order to bring my annual income below $2,700.

It seems very unfair to me that I have to do this. It means that my income is reduced $576 per year because of the ruling of the Veterans' Administration. I earned all three benefits and I should be paid accordingly.

Therefore I would appreciate it if you could get a bill introduced in this session of Congress directing the Veterans' Administration to not consider as income for pension purposes the income retirement annuity derived from money withheld from wages paid to civil service employees. I am sure many others would benefit from such a law and in these inflationary times we sure need it. Yours very truly,

EARL F. PIPKIN, 1657 E. Bennett Street.

ROUTE 5, Box 518-E, SPRINGFIELD, Mo.

Hon. EDWARD V. LONG,
U.S. Senate,

Springfield, Mo.

DEAR SENATOR: Weather conditions prevented me from attending your hearing. I am sure that the senior citizens have a trusted friend in your chairmanship of this most worthy hearing.

Attached is my 8-point suggestions for correcting many of our ills and shortsighted planning for that day when the earning power and productivity has ceased.

State-Federal housing and care for those unable to care for themselves plus housing and increased income for all that are self-propelling should make a foolproof workable plan free from graft and politics.

Yours truly,

RE SENIOR CITIZENS AID

J. E. HOLLIDAY.

Aid for the aged citizen is often confused and included along with the variety of services and aid administered by the social welfare State aid. Our social welfare programs should not be confused with aid for the aging citizen.

As one of those citizens who has passed his 65th birthday I would urge the following legislation:

(1) Increase the social security monthly check for husband and wife to $150; single person $100.

(2) Provide State and county tax-free exemption on real property valued up to $5,000 for home.

(3) Provide local clinic or physician's office and dental service through social security.

(4) Provide hospital complete service for 90 days on social security and thereafter on basis of insurance premium similar to that charged for civil service employees plan.

(5) Encourage couples to live in their own homes by making it possible as suggested in items 1 and 2 above.

(6) Make available loans to build individual three- and four-room homes on 20-year low interest rates. This plan is being sponsored in a few localities by private parties on the apartment plan idea.

(7) State and Federal Government should get into the nursing home business with sufficient facilities to properly care for the aged that are not capable of self-care. A survey of local needs should be conducted annually to keep informed of the needs.

(8) Vigorously protest any plan to provide hospitalization to the aged through insurance underwritten by any private insurance company. These plans would all be detrimental and fall short of meeting the real needs of the aged.