DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, EDUCATION, AND SECURITY THURSDAY, MARCH 20, 1947 UNITED STATES SENATE COMMITTEE ON EXPENDITURES Washington, D. C. The committee met, pursuant to adjournment, at 10:30 a. m., in room 357, Senate Office Building, Senator George D. Aiken (chairman) presiding. President: Senators Aiken (chairman), Ferguson, Thye, Eastland, Hoey and O'Conor. The CHAIRMAN. The hearing will come to order, and we will continue with testimony on S. 140 and S. 712. The first witness this morning is scheduled to be Mrs. LaFell Dickinson, president, General Federation of Women's Clubs, Washington, D. C. I do not see Mrs. Dickinson here. I don't know what has happened to her. Possibly she will come a little later. In her absence, the next witness is Mrs. Mildred Netreba of the League of Women Shoppers, Inc., Washington, D. C. Mrs. Netreba, will you proceed with your testimony on these bills? STATEMENT OF MRS. MILDRED NETREBA, LEAGUE OF WOMEN SHOPPERS, INC., WASHINGTON, D. C. Mrs. NETREBA. I am representing the League of Women Shoppers, Inc., a national organization whose members are largely housewives and professional women. Because of our deep concern with whatever affects the individual and the family, we are naturally interested in the purposes of a bill to create a governmental department which will further the health, education and security of all members of the community. We feel that the objectives of the proposed bill S. 140 are highly desirable and merit our wholehearted support. For the first time, the individual and the family needs for services in health, education and security would have Cabinet representation. In order to insure the realization of the laudable objectives of this bill, we feel we must strongly urge certain revisions and clarifications. First, we feel that the rigid and over-detailed form of the bill, in which allocation of organization and services, as in section 6 (b), is covered, would impede the fulfillment of the aforementioned goals. Section 5 (a) of the bill creating three divisions within the department, specifically stating activities and functions make the allocations in section 6 (b) ambiguous and confusing. For example, the arbitrary assignment of the Food and Drug Administration to the proposed Division of Health is subject to serious criticism. Up until now, the program of the Food and Drug Administration, in addition to its health aspects, has had as a primary function, the protection of the consumer against harmful and fraudulent products. Its functions as a law enforcement agency for the protection of consumers, manufacturers and distributors are not within the province of Public Health Service activities. Therefore, it appears that this would preclude the possibility of continuing consumer services within the proposed department. Senator FERGUSON. May I ask a question? Mrs. NETREBA. Yes. Senator FERGUSON. Just what is the League of Women Shoppers? I suppose, being a Senator, I should know; however, I just do not know. Mrs. NETREBA. We are a national organization. Senator FERGUSON. I understood all women were shoppers. They do the shopping for the family. Have you organized them? Mrs. NETREBA. This organization has been in existence for 10 years now, and we have branches all over the country. We have a national board and each local branch has a local executive director, too. Senator FERGUSON. Is it in the nature of consumers banding together for protection? Mrs. NETREBA. We have as part of our program consumer protection; that is, as a very important part of our program. We investigate whether products are worth while. We also have as part of our program investigations as to whether materials are union-made. Originally, we were interested in supporting union-made materials. Senator FERGUSON. How are you supported financially? Mrs. NETREBA. Just through the dues of membership. Senator FERGUSON. How much are the dues? Mrs. NETREBA. $3 a year. Senator FERGUSON. You said that you are interested in the determination of whether products are union-made. Does the union support that? Mrs. NETREBA. We have no affiliation with any other organization. We are not allowed to affiliate by our constitution. We have no connection, no official connection, with any other organization, political or partisan, of any sort at all. Senator FERGUSON. Then, this is more than a monetary proposition of women shoppers just to see that they get proper goods for their You go into health? money. Mrs. NETREBA. We feel that health and education and welfare are a very important part of every single person's living standard, and we are concerned with all matters directly affecting living standards. Senator FERGUSON. Are the officers paid in this organization? Mrs. NETREBA. We have no paid workers at all. Senator FERGUSON. No paid officers? Mrs. NETREBA. Everybody serves voluntarily, aside from regular household duties. Senator HOEY. Does your organization make any effort to advise members with reference to what goods are union made and what goods are not? Mrs. NETREBA. For a time that was a very important activity and during the war our activities changed a little bit in helping people work and understand and use effectively the OPA regulations. Senator HOEY. What was the object in advising the members about whether the goods were made by unions or not? Mrs. NETREBA. Most of our members are housewives and professional people, and we felt that if we supported union-made goods and labor unions in manufacture, the we could, by that way, help ourselves. Senator FERGUSON. How many members have you? Mrs. NETREBA. Nationally? Senator FERGUSON. Yes. Mrs. NETREBA. I really can't tell. I am not a member of the national board. I am simply on the legislative committee of the national board, and I couldn't say. Senator FERGUSON. New York has a district? Mrs. NETREBA. There is a branch in New York. Senator FERGUSON. How many members do they have? Mrs. NETREBA. I don't know. I don't belong to the New York branch. Senator FERGUSON. What branch do you belong to? Mrs. NETREBA. Washington, D. C. Senator FERGUSON. You are from Washington? May I proceed, Mr. Chairman? The CHAIRMAN. Proceed, please. Mrs. NETREBA. Again an example of overlapping activities is manifest in the allocation of the Children's Bureau to the Division of Security. Both the Division of Health and the Division of Education obviously have functions involved in the administration of the Children's Bureau. Our suggestion, therefore, is to leave specific allocation of services to the discretion of the Secretary instead of designating them by statute. We also strongly urge the separation of the consumer protection aspects of the Food and Drug Administration from the health aspects. This can be handled by a Consumer Bureau. Nowhere in the Government is there an agency solely to represent the citizen as a consumer. We feel that this is distinctly pertinent to the bill inasmuch as it directly concerns the living standards of families and individuals. Senator FERGUSON. May I interrupt you right there, please? What do you think the Government ought to do along that line for the consumer? What would you have them do? Mrs. NETREBA. In the Food and Drug Administration, as it now stands, it is a law-enforcement agency and it does have consumer protection functions. We feel that right there would be a nucleus for expanding consumer services. Senator FERGUSON. That is what I want to get at. What would you expand consumer services to include? Mrs. NETREBA. Well, right now they seem to cover protection against fraudulent products, against misleading advertising. I think, perhaps, the consumer would greatly benefit by wider information and also enforcement of existing protective laws. Very frequently 98634 47-pt. 2- 4 I find in my own experience, going to buy some large article, you find so many of the same kind, and some are more satisfactory and some less satisfactory, and I feel that dissemination of information could be one activity of this Consumer Bureau. Senator FERGUSON. Do you think the Government ought to step in and say that one article is better than the other, or should we just tell you what it is made from? Should they protect the health and safety of people by saying this contains certain materials, and see that it doesn't contain things injurious to the health. Or do you think the Government ought to say a certain article is better, that you should buy Packard automobiles and not buy Buick automobiles, that Buicks are not as good as Packards? Do you think that is the province of the Government? Mrs. NETREBA. I think that is a rather extreme example. Senator FERGUSON. We have to deal in extreme examples in order to find what you want done. What would you have the Government do? Mrs. NETREBA. From our experience there is such a thing as a Commerce Department treating with business people on business matters, giving them advice and information and help. Senator FERGUSON. Do you think that our Commerce Department is equipped to give advice to the businessmen of America when they can't even advise their own Government agencies how to run things? Don't you think probably Government is run more poorly, than business is? We find now that the Commerce Department is trying to advise all business how to run their business. Do you think we ought to keep in government this idea that we can do all the things by government regulations? Mrs. NETREBA. I really didn't come prepared to discuss that at all and I do not feel that it is pertinent to the particular issue. Senator FERGUSON. I am just not able to see this shopper's interest outside of health. Mrs. NETREBA. The League of Women Shoppers is interested in anything that will further the living standards, the health, the welfare, anything that affects the family and individual. This particular bill, of course, is very, very important to every individual, every family in the United States. We are really very much interested in seeing such a department established. I think it is within our province to be interested in such a bill. Senator FERGUSON. You do advocate the extending of the services to the consumers by the Government much beyond where they now reach? Mrs. NETREBA. Yes, we do. We feel we could use some help. The CHAIRMAN. The point you are trying to make now is that the enforcement work of the Food and Drug Administration should be separate from the Health Department! Mrs. NETREBA. Our point is that under the Health Department we do not feel the consumer effects will have any chance for expansion, and we wonder about whether they will be able to continue effectively under that. The CHAIRMAN. Proceed. Mrs. NETREBA. In contrast to the detailed rigidity of section 6 (b) of this bill, there are certain striking omissions. (a) The vocational rehabilitation program is involved at the same time with matters of health, education, and security. (b) The Bureau of Employees' Compensation and the Employees' Compensation Appeals Board which are involved with matters both of security and health. Where would they be assigned under the present compartmentalization? Where would such problems as medical education, school health services, and aid to the blind which cross professional lines be assigned? In section 6 (a), the Secretary "may abolish such office and agency and any such unit in the interest of administration efficiency." Here the bill tends to great license. We think the authority of the Secretary is unquestioned and that it is unnecessary to allow by statute the possibility for the Secretary to negate any legal entity set up by Congress and headed by a Presidential appointment. While we approve of a medical doctor to head the Health Service, an educator for the Education Division, and a trained social worker to head the Security Division, we oppose the inclusion of these parts of section 2 (a) which make it mandatory for the President to limit his selection of capable administrators to specific professional fields. There are, undoubtedly, such professionals with excellent administrative abilities who would qualify, but it seems unwise to restrict the President's field of choice. In section 3, the bill states that services should be carried out— in such manner as to preserve and protect to the highest degree the independence and autonomy of State and local agencies, public and voluntary, in education, health, security, and related fields. Our objection here is that insistence upon the "highest possible degree" of independence would seriously hamper the establishment of uniform standards and policies in the execution of services granted by the bill. In section 4, the bill states that the Department shall "aid, stimulate, and encourage" private agencies in the fields of health, education, and security. We can assume that the Department would inevitably cooperate with existing private agencies in the field. However, writing into the bill the directive to "promote, foster, and encourage" these agencies would oblige the Department to cooperate with any and all agencies regardless of their ability to fulfill the standards and policies set by the Department. Our sugestion then is that the cooperation with private agencies be left to the discretion of the Secretary and not be written specifically into the bill. In summary, the League of Women Shoppers recommends the establishment of a Department with Cabinet rank to include the services. of health, education, and security. We urge the formation of a Consumer Bureau to represent consumer needs and interests within the Department. We feel that to render the bill effective and practicable, the present form of the bill should be changed to allow greater flexibility in the organization and function of the Department. The Secretary would then, without being bound by allocation by statute, be able to place the various agencies and services where they will best function. In view of the importance of establishing national stand |