SECOND MEETING MAY 29, 1899 His Excellency Mr. Beernaert presiding. Mr. Raffalovich calls the attention of his colleagues to the absolute necessity of observing the fullest secrecy in regard to the communications given and the documents distributed. Colonel Count Barantzew reads the following Russian propositions : [46] Russian propositions for the modification, improvement or transformation which may be made in guns within a period of time to be discussed 1. The minimum weight of the gun shall be 4 kg. 3. The weight of the bullet shall not be less than 101⁄2 grams. 4. The initial velocity shall not exceed 720 meters. 5. The rapidity of fire shall be kept at 25 shots per minute. 6. It is understood that explosive or expansive bullets, as well as automatic loading, are prohibited. General den Beer Poortugael communicates the text which he prepared with the authorization of the Dutch Government. The nations agree not to use in their armies or fleets, during five years from the date of signature of the present documents, any other guns than those now in use or under consideration. With respect to guns under consideration, only those of an existing type and of a caliber ranging between 6 and 8 mm. shall be allowed. The improvements allowed shall be of such a nature as not to change the type, caliber, or initial velocity now prevailing. The President opens up the discussion. Colonel Count Barantzew says he has been authorized to submit to the subcommission the propositions which he made at this meeting, but Russia would. have preferred that the original proposition be adhered to. It is out of deference to the desire expressed by the assembly that he brings a new text. Colonel Gilinsky observes that the fundamental idea expressed in the circular of August 12, 1898, is that of a possible reduction of the excessive armaments which are weighing on the nations; it is in order to mitigate the burden imposed on the taxpayers that the Russian Government has proposed that each nation preserve its present gun and avoid the new expenses incident to a change; the second formula effects no change in the sense of the first. General den Beer Poortugael adheres to the idea of Colonel GILINSKY. He deemed it necessary to propose a clause which might be accepted while remaining within the most general terms and while avoiding more precise details. This would permit small improvements without modifying the type in use. It will be all the easier to agree on the gun since most of the nations now have an arm with which they may be satisfied and which is of an analogous type. The President points out that the dominating idea is the same in both Russian and Dutch propositions. Only the first specifies more fully, while the latter is more general in this way, that it does not speak of the caliber, initial velocity, weight of bullet, etc. At the request of Mr. Beldiman, delegate from Roumania, it is decided that the text of the two propositions shall be printed and that the assembly shall give its opinion at the next meeting. Colonel Gilinsky reads the proposition of the Russian Government in regard to bullets: The use of bullets whose envelope does not entirely cover the core at the point, or is pierced with incisions, and, in general, the use of bullets which expand or flatten easily in the human body, should be prohibited, since they do not conform to the spirit of the Declaration of St. Petersburg of 1868. Colonel GILINSKY adds that there exists a new projectile the front part of which is hollowed out, so that there is, at the point of the bullet, an empty space between the core and the casing. Colonel Künzli proposes the following text: Prohibition of infantry projectiles such as have the point of the casing perforated or filed, and whose direct passage through the body is prevented by an empty interior or by the use of soft lead. The object which he has in view is to diminish the useless suffering of wounded persons, the purpose of war being to put men out of action for a certain length of time and not to mutilate them. The President asks the opinions of the delegations present. The delegate from Germany, Colonel Gross von Schwarzhoff, would prefer the Russian formula as being the more precise. The German Government would, of course, offer no objection, but Mr. GROSS VON SCHWARZHOFF takes the question ad referendum. The delegate from the United States, Captain Crozier, thinks his Government will endorse the ideas of Colonel GILINSKY. [47] The delegate from Austria-Hungary, Lieutenant Colonel von Khuepach, accepts the Russian proposition. The delegate from Denmark, Colonel von Schnack, accepts the Russian proposition. The delegate from Spain, Count de Serrallo, likewise. The delegate from France, General Mounier, accepts. However, he asks that the wording be modified in order to avoid the difficulties connected with too precise a definition, which might be evaded by reason of subsequent inventions. He proposes that we confine ourselves to the use of the term "expansive bullet." The delegate from Great Britain, General Sir John Ardagh, accepts the Russian proposition ad referendum. The delegate from Japan, Mr. Motono, accepts the Russian proposition. The delegate from Italy, General Zuccari, while accepting the Russian proposition as a principle endorses the observations of General MOUNIER. The delegate from the Netherlands, General den Beer Poortugael, accepts the Russian proposition with the MOUNIER amendment. The delegate from Persia, General Mirza Riza Khan, accepts the Russian proposition. The delegate from Portugal, Captain Ayres d'Ornellas, endorses the Russian proposition with the MOUNIER amendment. The delegate from Roumania, Mr. Beldiman, thinks his Government will accept the Russian proposition as amended by General MoUNIER. The delegate from Serbia, Colonel Maschine, accepts it ad referendum. The delegate from Siam, Mr. Phya Suriya, accepts the Russian proposition. The delegate from Sweden and Norway, Colonel Brändström, accepts the GILINSKY-MOUNIER proposition. The delegate from Switzerland, Colonel Künzli, after withdrawing his text, accepts the GILINSKY-MOUNIER proposition. The delegate from Turkey, General Abdullah Pasha, accepts the Russian proposition. The delegate from Bulgaria, Major Hessaptchieff, accepts the GILINSKYMOUNIER proposition. General Mounier suggests the following wording: "The use of expansive or dilatable bullets is prohibited." Colonel Coanda observes that soft bullets, without casing, become dilatable through their mechanical effect. He proposes to mention in the text non-explosive bullets" with a hard casing covering the whole bullet. On the proposition of Colonel Count Barantzew, the subcommission instructs the Russian, French, and Roumanian delegates to submit a final text to him by the next meeting. On the proposition of the President, the subcommission takes up the question of the cannon. The PRESIDENT asks whether they are in favor of stopping, for a certain period of time to be determined, at the present types and of forbidding themselves by convention to make any improvement. Colonel Gilinsky recalls that the object of the Russian propositions is to reduce the burden which is weighing down on the peoples; it would be desirable to arrive, as regards field ordnance, at an understanding similar to that suggested for small arms; that is, that the present cannon should not be changed, namely, the new rapid fire guns now existing in several armies, allowing countries which are behindhand to catch up with the others. Following an observation by General ZUCCARI, the President asks whether it is agreed that countries which are behindhand shall at all events be allowed to improve their armament in order to bring it up to the level of countries which are now the farthest advanced. Mr. Bihourd remarks that this way of putting it might induce greater expenditure by serving as an incitement to improve the present equipment; it would thus be contrary to the economic purpose pursued in the limitation of armaments. The President calls for a vote on the question whether it is understood that in case new improvements were prohibited conventionally this prohibition would nevertheless allow all to adopt the most improved types now in use. Thus, the most backward nations could place themselves on a level with the most advanced ones. The delegates who are in favor of this will vote yea, the others nay. The delegate from Germany says it is difficult to vote owing to the restrictions imposed. The delegates from the United States of America vote yea. The delegate from Austria-Hungary, after stating that his country is to change its cannon, sides with the delegate from Germany. The delegate from Belgium votes yea. [48] The delegate from Denmark, after declaring that his country is to change its equipment, says that it would be necessary to try the best types, but that the nations which possess them will not let them be known. It would be necessary to state exactly what is admissible and what is not. The delegate from Spain states that his country is also going to change its equipment, and joins in the opinion of Denmark. The delegate from France cannot answer either yea or nay; Denmark seems to have given the proper opinion. General MOUNIER does not know the best situation; there is a secret here to everybody. The delegate from Great Britain says that his Government is not disposed to accept the limitation concerning cannon. The delegate from Italy votes yea. The delegate from Japan is of the same opinion as the delegate from Denmark. The delegate from the Netherlands is of the opinion of Colonel GROSS VON SCHWARZHOFF. The delegate from Persia sides with the Russian proposition. The delegate from Roumania observes that it is impossible to treat the question of cannon like that of small arms, and he sides with the opinion of General MOUNIER. The delegate from Russia recalls the fact that he has already pointed out the difference between the question of the gun and that of the cannon. In the case of the gun, the Great Powers are in possession of very satisfactory types which are much alike. This is not the case with the cannon. Colonel Gilinsky says the Russian proposition tends to the acceptance of the best cannon, that is, the rapid-fire cannon. The delegate from Serbia votes yea. The delegate from Siam votes yea. The delegate from Sweden and Norway announces that in his country the replacement of the ancient cannons has been decided upon. Under these circumstances, he must reserve his vote. The delegate from Switzerland says that the most advanced countries in the way of ordnance are France and Germany. The rest are in an experimental stage. He will not vote. The delegate from Turkey makes reservations. The delegate from Bulgaria asks whether a more improved type of small arms is to be adopted, and whether backward nations will be allowed to choose the best types for their armament. Under this reservation he joins in the proposition of Colonel GILINSKY. In consequence of this vote the President thinks he ought to lay down the question as to the principle involved. Should the nations represented at the Conference prohibit themselves, for a certain period of time to be determined, and especially for purposes of economy, from modifying their ordnance equipment, precluding the use of any new invention, each thus preserving full freedom of action? He asks the opinion of the delegates: Germany, the United States, and Austria-Hungary, nay; Belgium abstains from voting; Denmark, Spain, France, Great Britain, Italy, Japan, the Netherlands, Portugal, Persia, and Roumania, nay; Russia abstains from voting (the delegate from Russia observes that the prohibition would apply only to the most advanced countries, the others having the freedom to choose the best type); Serbia, Siam, Sweden and Norway, Switzerland, Turkey, and Bulgaria, nay. The President states that a very large majority is hostile to any limitation as regards cannon and that on this point likewise there is no use for discussion. He asks whether there is any limitation to be made in regard to powders. On this question the delegates present are unanimously in favor of preserving freedom of action for each nation as regards the use of new loading powders. Colonel Gilinsky says Russia proposes not to use, for field artillery, highexplosive shells (obus brisants ou à fougasses) and to limit itself to the existing explosives without having recourse to the formidable explosives employed for sieges. Colonel Gross von Schwarzhoff asks whether the use of the very powerful explosives which have been adopted in some armies will be forbidden. The President says that such is really the scope of the proposition of Colonel GILINSKY. To the question whether high-explosive shells shall be prohibited in field warfare, ten nations (Belgium, Denmark, Netherlands, Persia, Portugal, Serbia, Russia, Siam, Switzerland, and Bulgaria) answer yea. Eleven nations (Germany, United States, Austria-Hungary, France, Spain, Great Britain, Italy, Japan, Roumania, Sweden and Norway, and Turkey) vote nay. To the question whether new explosives not yet used should be prohibited, nine nations (Belgium, Netherlands, Persia, Portugal, Russia, Serbia, Siam, Switzerland, and Bulgaria) voted yea. [49] Twelve nations (Germany, United States, Austria-Hungary, Denmark, Spain, France, Great Britain, Italy, Japan, Roumania, Sweden and Norway, and Turkey) voted nay. The President places the second part of theme No. 3 under discussion, viz: Prohibition of the discharge of projectiles or explosives of any kind from balloons or by similar methods. General den Beer Poortugael reads the following declaration: The Government of the Netherlands has authorized me to support this proposition. |