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the same goal. With the demonstration project one of the requirements is a good dissemination program to get the information out. A good demonstration program should have consultants. That is a rather expensive component if it is done right. The idea here was to be able to launch several different demonstrations within the same setting, making use of the same dissemination staff, to enable the system to have one dissemination program to show people what we were doing and bringing in people to see several model programs in operation at the same visit rather than having them go to one place to see one thing in operation and to another place to see something else in operation.


Mr. SHRIVER. What would be the difference between the proposed center you mentioned of $2 million and existing research facilities? What would be the difference between that and what is now in existence?

Mr. Moss. Two things. One is that most of the major research centers around the country now are concentrating on a particular area of the handicapped—the deaf, the blind, the mentally retarded. This center would incorporate training and research for many areas of the handicapped in one center to make the best use of ideas across the board. That would be a major difference.

The other would be the construction of model type classrooms and bringing together a major dissemination unit all within the same structure.

Mr. SHRIVER. Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Mr. FOGARTY. Mr. Farnum.


Mr. FARNUM. I would like to talk about the $2 million facility you are talking about. You say on page 11 thata review committee will select the site from applications, taking into account the overall excellence and cohesiveness of the institution's program for the handicapped.

Does that statement say. to me that there are a limited number of institutions that could be considered ?

Mr. Moss. Yes.

Mr. FARNUM. Would you explain to me what kind of institutions you are looking for?

Mr. Moss. We would expect institutions who have had some history of interest and work in the area of handicapped children.

Mr. FARNUM. Did you not just get through telling Mr. Shriver your problem is that you have institutions all over but they specialize in only one area?

Mr. Moss. There are institutions doing doctoral training and research in all areas.

Mr. FARNUM. How many would you say are in that category?
Mr. Moss. Roughly, 20 to 30.


Mr. FARNUM. What kind of a review committee will this be that will select the site ?

Mr. Moss. We were talking some time ago with the Bureau in regard to that. I would expect it would be made up of people experienced in research with the handicapped.

Mr. FARNUM. Can you explain the kinds of people you are talking about?

Mr. Moss. Sam Kirk, Mr. Hobbs
Mr. FARNUM. I mean as to their background.

Mr. Moss. I would expect they would have a background in education and psychology with extensive research experience in the handicapped area. I am not sure this is the way it will go. There is some talk of having people with a broader base, people not heavily involved in the handicapped area.

Mr. FARNUM. Explain that.

Mr. Moss. People, for example, in the Ford Foundation who have been involved in program support but not in this field. University presidents have also been considered. This has not been decided.

Mr. FARNUM. How long will it take you to decide that if you get the money!

Mr. Moss. Perhaps 20 minutes.

Mr. FARNUM. Twenty minutes does not necessarily reflect good judgment unless there has been a lot of decisionmaking prior to this.

Mr. Moss. I think what is required is a representative of the Bureau and myself to sit down. We have had committees that have given thought to this and we have an ad hoc committee which has been working with me on it. We need to get the thinking of the ad hoc committee and the Bureau's thinking and the Commissioner's thinking and it does not seem to me it would take long to make that decision.

Mr. Bright. I might mention they have been thinking of including some of the experience we had with a review committee for the establishment of other types of research and development centers around the country.


Mr. FARNUM. I notice you will be asking for a commitment of 20 years for whatever institution is decided upon by the committee. Also, according to your statement, they have to take into consideration, or you will, their ability to administer the institution and financially support it after the completion of the center.

Are you saving what we are really talking about is the building of the center and providing the equipment, then it will be the responsibility thereafter of the institution to provide all the financial support?

Mr. Moss. No.
Mr. FARNUM. What are we talking about?

Mr. Moss. We intend to support it out of programmatic support funds and then hopefully to reduce the level of support over the years.

Mr. Farnum. Have you made any projections so that when you talk to prospective applicants you can tell them what they must expect in the way of financial support?

Mr. Moss. We have figures on what we expect to contribute to this in the next 5 years.

Mr. Farnum. I am talking about what the institutions might have to contribute.

Mr. Moss. We do not have those figures.

Mr. FARNUM. There must be something that could be submitted to show what it will cost an institution.

Mr. Moss. We can show what we would expect the operation to cost over the year. I think the balance, Federal support versus local support, will be negotiated.

Mr. FARNUM. That is all.


Mr. Fogarty. Regarding Mr. Shriver's question on the shortage of teachers in these various areas, I thought Dr. Wirtz gave an excellent explanation; but as I look back on the history of this legislation authorizing funds for the training of teachers, we were told 10 years ago that the State and local institutions were not training teachers for the handicapped, and as a result these were the forgotten children. As a result of the passage of that act it did increase the interest in the States to try to do a better job to improve the quality and the number of teachers. I think perhaps the quality of the teachers has been improved at a higher rate than the number of teachers to come into the field.

There is not a good state school for the deaf today, and the main reason has been, I think, because of the lack of qualified teachers. In my State, in our school for the deaf, only 30 percent of the faculty meet the standards set by the Rhode Island Department of Education. The others are protected by the grandfather clause, but any new ones will have to meet the standards of the State department of education.

The passage of the act for training teachers of the deaf has increased the interest, in my part of the country, for more people going into the field of teaching the deaf. As a result of this bill, for 4 or 5 years now, the quality of the teachers has improved, the methods of training teachers for the deaf has improved, and the number entering the field has increased. The bill providing for the training of teachers for the mentally retarded was really to teach teachers to teach the retarded. There was a difference there because we did not have teachers in the field to teach teachers for the retarded. They were really the forgotton children. They were sent into institutions and left there and the parents did not want to talk about the problem. But now people are talking about it, I think, because of the impetus provided by legislation that has been passed in the Congress in the last 10 years and the appropriations initiated by this committee over the President's budget.

So I do think we are making some beadway, though not enough, and I think this seed money will stimulate greater interest in these fields. I think in many cases they should, and will, pay higher salaries to teachers of the deaf and other handicapped children.

Also, because of this Federal support industry has shown an interest in recent years in developing new techniques and new equipment to help teachers in this field. Through the cooperative research program

60-627--66--pt. 2 ---31

we have found better ways for teaching retarded and other handicapped children. So progress is being made.


Mr. Shriver comes from one of the best States in the country so far as the care and treatment of the mentally ill are concerned, and also so far as the development of better treatment and teaching of the handicapped is concerned. Dr. Palmer, of course, was one of the leaders in this field. He comes from an area that has been showing the way. But in many areas, including my own State—we have one of the poorest schools for the deaf in the country, I have made that statement publicly—the schools for the retarded and other handicapped are shameful. The State of Kansas has been doing a much better job in this field than most of the States, including my own.

Mr. SHRIVER. Yes, but we can do more. We are not moving fast enough in the training of teachers and filling this gap.


Mr. FOGARTY. I do not think the Department of Education has put on a real selling program in these areas. Our teachers' college in Rhode Island has not made an all-out effort to interest the young people in going into these various fields, but the president of the college tells me more emphasis is being placed on this every year.

So I think we are on the right road but I agree it will take a long time to catch up. I would hope by a little prodding the States will do more and also the universities and teachers' colleges will do more to encourage the young people to become teachers of the handicapped.

Do you want to say anything else?
Mr. Moss. No; I probably said too much already.
Mr. FOGARTY. Dr. Harris, do you want to say anything else?


Mr. HARRIS. I made a study some 25 years ago for the Board of School Commissioners of the Territory-as it was then-of Hawaii because they were not quite happy with the program for mentally retarded children in the Territory of Hawaii. My study extended nationwide to determine what was being done in the way of teacher training and in the way of financing special programs and in the way of research and studies such as were being done by clinics such as the Gesell Clinic in New Haven. I found that instead of having specially qualified teachers they put the children in a special school called the Opportunity School, very badly misnamed. Teachers in the public elementary school had to have 5 years of collegiate work whereas teachers in the Opportunity School were 2-year normal school graduates and the principal also was a 2-year normal school graduate and the only training they had for that type of teaching was in summer school.

As a result of that study the teachers were replaced and they brought in teachers from the mainland and sent teachers back for training in

institutions like Syracuse, the University of Denver, and institutions like that, and they did make a start but I have been greatly disappointed that 10 or 15 years later the country seemed not to have moved appreciably in the solution of this problem.

There is now an obvious acceleration. I think we can increase that acceleration by putting the pressure on the demanding side.

It might be well to have this statement, such as we sent to all State departments of education, suggesting that they might want to distribute it to the school districts, showing the resources available to their local educational agencies whereby they can take steps for the handicapped.

Mr. FOGARTY. I do not think the Department of Education is doing enough for handicapped children. I think you can do more. What do you say to that?

Mr. Howe. We will certainly try.
Mr. FOGARTY. Good. Thank you very much.


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Grants, subsidies, and contributions—total obligations by object:

1966 estimate1967 estimate -

$25, 500,000 32, 600, 000

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