Mr. Howe. Excuse me. Perhaps this does not read properly. This refers to the handicapped and the training of teachers for the handicapped.

Mr. SHRIVER. You are talking about teachers.

Mr. Howe. Perhaps we should have started another paragraph. This comes after the sentence, "Training of teachers of the handicapped will be increased to meet a critical shortage in this particular area." The area refers to the handicapped.

Mr. SHRIVER. I see.

Mr. Howe. There should be a paragraph there to clarify it.

Mr. SHRIVER. I did not recall there had been funding.

Mr. Howe. No, there has not been. We are anxiously awaiting it.

TEACHER CORPS

Mr. CARDWELL. The budget proposes a supplemental request will be sent shortly to the Congress.

Mr. SHRIVER. Is this the same proposition we had before?

Mr. Howe. The Teachers Corps? Yes, sir. It was enacted as a title of the Higher Education Act but not funded. I believe there is no amendment suggested as far as the act is concerned. It remains in the same form.

Mr. SHRIVER. But Federal funds to be used?

Mr. CARDWELL. Full Federal funds to be paid for training in the supplemental. This year's budget, the 1967 budget, would propose full Federal payment for salaries of those teachers who would go into operation in 1967 after having been trained in 1966. The training would take place under the proposed supplemental.

Mr. Howe. The supplemental is $13 million, and the appropriation for fiscal 1967 is approximately $30 million.

Mr. CARDWELL. $13.2 and $31 million, respectively.

Mr. SHRIVER. You are not speaking in connection with this proposal at this time.

Mr. Howe. I am simply including this as one of the possibilities for improved teacher training.

Mr. SHRIVER. The supplemental is not before the committee right

now.

Mr. CARDWELL. No, it is not, but the budget before the committee does assume enactment of the supplemental and the budget would not be a viable request if the supplemental were not to be enacted, because without the supplemental the Office of Education will not be able to initiate the program in time to make use of the moneys requested for 1967. So, the two are hinged inseparably together.

The only problem is that the supplemental must come up here and be dealt with by the Congress. It will come up very soon. It is scheduled for very early submission.

QUESTION OF FEDERAL CONTROL UNDER TEACHER CORPS

Mr. SHRIVER. How do you figure there would not be Federal control if the entire funds involved were Federal money and then you place the teachers wherever they are requested? Where would there be no Federal control under this proposal?

Mr. Howe. The teachers will be trained in universities with whom we make contracts for the training process, and will operate institutes for the training of these teachers. Control of the training process will be in the universities, using their personnel. We will not be directly involved in this. The teachers will be assigned to school systems with disadvantaged youngesters needing such special assistance to pep up their programs. Their assignment there, within certain limits of regulations we will have to provide to make sure that they really do the kinds of things intended, will be controlled by the school system.

So, although this is a federally financed activity, we are not asking these teachers to report directly to us, but rather, to the principals of the schools where they are, who will control their activities within those schools. So, this, no more than any other federally financed activity, would raise the issue of control.

Mr. SHRIVER. Most of them are matching or at least a portion of them are. The money goes to the State and filters down. This is totally paid for by the Federal Government, and you send these teachers where you think they are needed and where they are requested.

COMMUNITY INVOLVEMENT

Mr. CARDWELL. I think it would be well to reverse that point, that teachers would be assigned where they are requested provided they are also needed, but the impetus is on the State and the local community to establish the program to which the teachers would be assigned.

It is through this device, I think, that you bring in the community involvement which is necessary to make the program effective. There is no intent within the program to have the Federal Government dominate. The intent is to stimulate the local community to take an action which it has not heretofore taken.

Mr. Howe. No one who does not want a Teacher Corps representative will have to receive one, as I understand it.

Mr. SHRIVER. Like any other Federal program, if that is available they will want it.

Mr. CARDWELL. That is right.

Mr. SHRIVER. That is all I have.

TECHNICAL INSTITUTES

Mr. FLOOD. At this point I would discuss just one thing. I am concerned with the lack in this country of what in the Western European countries and Russia is known as the 2-year technical institute. Upon graduation you get a certificate. Bureau after bureau and department after department sit in that chair where you are sitting before us, and there is much beating of the breast and gnashing of the teeth about this appalling, abysmal lack of technicians. I am speaking of the whole broad spectrum of technicians, whatever you will. I know it will be said here in the weeks ahead by the HÈW people, faced with the shock of medicare within the next year, "What in the world are we going to do?" They haven't the remotest idea. It is going to be chaotic. We have this question of full employment. We have here and there skilled and semiskilled shortages now. This, we think, can only become progressively worse, or better, depending upon which way you look at it.

This business of higher education is a marvelous thing. I am a great adherent of it, even at the graduate level. We have been pushing on that. I am also aware of the status symbol of a college degree. I am also aware that many young men and women on the college and university campuses would rather not be there. They would rather be in one of my institutes, becoming technicians of some kind or other.

I am not speaking of vocational training schools. I am a great champion of vocational training schools. I am not speaking of a 13-week course to become a beautician or a 21-week course to become a welder or whatnot in a vocational school. I think vocational schools are the greatest thing since sliced bread in packages, and I would like to see one on every street corner. You couldn't possibly have too many. But that is not what I am talking about.

What do you think? I am not a pedagog. I am a lawyer. But I have been here so long, I am practically a covenant running with the land, or something of that sort-in the good wisdom of my constituents, of course. There is this crying need, speaking not just of men but of men and women.

The second facet of that in the tradition and the thinking of our country, unlike Western Europe, women have been taboo in this kind of thing. This shocks me to the soul when I see so many fine technicians who are women.

men and

How can we fill this void? By making use of the existing universities, of course, if they would accept it. But how do you do this? How do you spring full blown on Monday morning a rash of these socalled technical institutes to turn out these very eager young women who want to take advantage of this thing I am talking about? It just is not there in the numbers and type and size and kind of which I am speaking.

I am not suggesting that I have dreamed this up.

As a pedagog or professional, of course, you know this. It has been brushed under the rug to all intents and purposes while we have been rushing madly to universities and colleges and graduate degrees and hoods of all types and colors walking up and down the aisle. I am for that. I will man the barricades for that. But I look over my shoulder and I see nothing behind me.

Mr. Howe. I could not agree with you more about the need, sir. Mr. FLOOD. I am glad to hear that.

COMMUNITY AND JUNIOR COLLEGES

Mr. Howe. I think there is some indication that there are some small pieces of progress in this area. I think we may get involved in some semantic problems here. We do not typically use the phrase "technical institute" to describe some of our educational institutions when may be we should. For example, it seems to me in the rapidly growing community college movement or the junior college movement there are portions of this which really

Mr. FLOOD. I am not speaking of the so-called junior college or community college, which I know. I have not identified them. This is an area for operation, I would hope, because I can feel these things catching on. This community college thing has now overshadowed

the junior college which was quite the rage for a while. Now the so-called community college is becoming quite the thing to talk about at the local level.

Mr. Howe. I think we need to go below what we call these things into the actual programs that are offered and the functions that are carried out within them. I am sure that you will find in a large number of so-called community colleges and I think we tend to use this word "college" because it is prestigious, and it does not really describe the nature of the institution

TECHNICAL INSTITUTES IN EUROPE

Mr. FLOOD. Exactly. I do not want to use the word "college" for the institution for which I am pleading. I expressly do not want to use the word "college." I abhor the use of the word "college" in connection with this thing that I am talking about. They exist in Western Europe, as you know, first-class, and for a long time, marvelous institutions. If a boy or a girl who goes there wishes to pursue a college degree at night, this can be done. If he wants a bachelor's degree in something, there is no reason why this cannot be done. It is done every day and night. If he wants it, he will get it.

I feel this tremendous lack of technical institutes, which is exactly what I mean. I do not mean anything else but a technical institute. What do you mean by a technical institute? Something where a mechanic fixes a car? No, I don't. I do not mean that at all. A technician today is not the technician of my grandfather's time in the very limited mechanical sense. There is no horizon today to what a technician is. He or she does not need 4 years of college. These people should be given a chance at an institute devoted only to that. I do not mean that institute could not be on the University of Pennsylvania campus. I suppose it could be. I do not know. I do not see why not. But it also could be someplace else, not on that campus.

COMPREHENSIVE JUNIOR COLLEGES

Mr. Howe. Our community colleges and some so-called junior colleges tend to be more comprehensive institutions and to have several purposes rather than a single purpose.

Mr. FLOOD. Correct.

Mr. Howe. But along the several purposes they have, just as the comprehensive high school has several purposes, they are performing some of the functions of the rather specialized institution that you are describing.

Mr. FLOOD. May I interrupt to point out I am not speaking now of an institute which would devote itself exclusively to bacteriology technicians. I would take for granted that this technical institute of which I speak would have a curriculum embracing, as far as the rule of reason would permit, a series of technical opportunities.

Mr. Howe. And perhaps some people who would do well enough in some aspect of the general education offered there, might go on 4

years more.

Mr. FLOOD. Yes; I have said that. This is entirely up to the individual. If and when he or she gets my certificate and is working

at that technical calling, whatever it might be, if he or she suddenly strikes fire and wants to go on to get a degree in that specialty or something else, I am sure it can be done.

Mr. Howe. I would like to ask Mr. Ludington, if he is here, whether title I of the Higher Education Act in any sense answers a portion of this need.

Mr. FLOOD. The more I stay here, year after year, in this whole cabal of our educational system, I think this is our Achilles' heel.

Mr. Howe. Will the extension programs of universities move at all in this direction?

Mr. LUDINGTON. Whether the States make this kind of decision remains to be seen. I think in view of your comment, although progress has been slow, progress is being made in the direction you are indicating, Congressman.

Mr. FLOOD. I am unhappy with the progress.

Mr. LUDINGTON. I think we all are.

Mr. FLOOD. I wanted them last night.

PRIVATELY OPERATED TECHNICAL INSTITUTES

Mr. LUDINGTON. I think part of our dilemma is the extent to which vocational and technical and higher technical institutions should be institutionalized in this country. There are different points of view with respect to this.

Mr. FLOOD. We have a tendency to have the pendulum swing to extremes. I am in the middle of the road. It goes swinging past me all the time. I cannot get this thing put together. People are just nibbling at it. They are rushing to the underprivileged now, pellmell; and for the last decade they have been clamoring up and down the ivy walls for degrees of all sorts and kinds, and then for doctorates. My grandfather had a high school diploma, and he was a great guy. My father had a bachelor of arts and he was a greater guy. Now you have to have some alphabet soup after your name. My grandfather's high school diploma and my father's bachelor's degree are not worth the powder it takes to shoot them.

We have been in this for 10 years, and I am getting a little bored with it. I want a shift in emphasis, or to look back and see my institutes. I want a rash of them.

Mr. Howe. There is a piece of American education that we do not talk about very much which is operated and controlled by industry, and provides for a portion of this need.

Mr. FLOOD. Yes.

Mr. Howe. General Electric runs major training institutions. Ford and General Motors do, also. In past years, this has been a major piece of educational energy in the realm you are talking about.

ROLE OF PROFESSIONAL EDUCATORS REGARDING TECHNICAL INSTITUTES

Mr. FLOOD. But the professionals have preferred to let the private sector do most of this. What has been done, I am advised, is excellent but it is a drop in the bucket. I want you professionals not to take over but to add on, and into your warp and woof fill this void as the Russians are filling it, as the Germans are filling it, as the English have been filling it for generations, and the Scandinavians. Mister,