Seventy-five loans at roughly $1 million apiece is your horseback opinion, but we don't want to appropriate money on your horseback opinion. This table on D-4 is worthy of your consideration. Under the old program you received 115 applications and for this additional $75 million you are going to get an increase 135. That is your estimate. Let us now get down to something factual. LOANS APPROVED The loans approved under your old program-is this a correct figure of 40? Mr. FRANTZ. That was the estimate in connection with the request for $30 million in the regular bill. Mr. THOMAS. I am talking about loans approved. That is an accomplished fact as far as your language is concerned. Have you an approved amount actually of 40 notes? Mr. FRANTZ. No, sir. Mr. THOMAS. How many have you actually approved? Mr. WEAVER. The figures we have here "loan approvals outstanding"-the latest figure is 29. Mr. THOMAS. You have actually signed commitments for 29 loans? Mr. WEAVER. Let me break that down further: Loan agreement executed, 5. Loan agreements in process, 3. That makes a total of 29. Mr. THOMAS. How have you actually bound the taxpayers to pay on them? How many? That is the final test. Mr. WEAVER. Eight. Mr. THOMAS. Name the eight, tell where they are located and give the amount of money involved in each. Mr. WEAVER. We will supply that to you. Mr. THOMAS. Do you know what is the average unit cost? Mr. WEAVER. It is the first eight on this list. DETAILS OF APPROVED LOANS Cordell Christian Home Corp., Cordell, Okla., a Federal loan of $400,000. Mr. THOMAS. How many units involved? Mr. WEAVER. Eighteen single and 32 double, a total of 50. Mr. THOMAS. At $400,000? Mr. WEAVER. Yes, sir. Mr. THOMAS. How much is that per unit, $2,000? Mr. WEAVER. About $8,000. Fifty into 400. $8,000. Peninsula Volunteer Properties, Inc., Menlo Park, Calif., a total loan of $280,000. Thirty units, made up of 22 efficiency and 8 onebedroom. Mr. THOMAS. How much is that per unit? Mr. WEAVER. $9,300. Mr. THOMAS. Finish that table and put it in the record and add another column showing the unit cost. Name another. Mr. WEAVER. Amherst Wilder, St. Paul, Minn. A $540,000 loan. Fifty units. They are broken up, 27 efficiencies; 18 one-bedroom; 5 two-bedroom. Mr. THOMAS. What is the unit cost? Mr. WEAVER. $10,800. Mr. THOMAS. Go ahead. Mr. WEAVER. Kundig Center, Inc., Detroit, Mich., $160,000 total loan. Twenty-six single units and the unit cost on that is about $6,000. Evangeline Foundation, Shreveport, La., a total loan of $660,513. Sixty-two units. Forty-eight efficiencies, 12 one-bedroom and 2 twobedroom, a little over $10,000 per unit. Lutheran Welfare Council of Greater Peoria, Ill., $493,000. Fifty units made up of 40 single and 10 double. A little less than $10,000. The "S" Elect Homes, Duluth, Minn., $864,000. Sixty-five units made up of 46 efficiency; 16 one-bedroom and 3 two-bedroom. Mr. THOMAS. Insert that in the record now. (The document referred to follows:) HOUSING AND HOME FINANCE AGENCY, COMMUNITY FACILITIES ADMINISTRATION Housing for the elderly-Detail of 29 loans approved as of July 31, 1961 HOUSING AND HOME FINANCE AGENCY, COMMUNITY FACILITIES ADMINISTRATION-Continued Housing for the elderly-Detail of 29 loans approved as of July 31, 1961—Con. Mr. THOMAS. You have been actually signed up where an obligation is created on the part of the United States, but in different stages of binding the taxpayers, you have 40 applications. Let me add to my original remarks: In my humble judgment after your best projects-I will call it that rather than skimming off the cream; certainly you have a limited marked here you are going to have to have construction differential subsidy or an operating subsidy or both and I want to add I think that help in the form of subsidy certainly ought to come from local communities, or the States in which they are located and not from the Federal Government. Now how long will it take to get these eight completed and occupied? Mr. WOOLNER. The first one will be open for occupancy about the end of September. That will be in Menlo Park. The second about 30 days later will be the one at Cordell, Okla. The rest of the eight are in varying preconstruction stages. Some can be occupied this calendar year and all of them by next May or June. Mr. THOMAS. This program is about 16 months old, is it not? Mr. THOMAS. Gentlemen, let us caution you again. We want this to work but you had better get a little experience under your belt. You are not going to get that experience under another 6 to 8 months by any manner, method, or means. Is that a fair statement? Mr. WEAVER. I think we are getting it now. More than was the case before. When I came in, this program was limping and as you know we set up certain machinery, we turned over the administration to Mr. Woolner Mr. THOMAS. What I mean by some experience under your belt adds up to one thing and that is when the projects are built and occupied and the payments begin to fall due. Now that is your experience and you haven't had that experience yet. The table speaks for itself. Gentlemen, are there any questions? Mr. JENSEN. I have some questions, Mr. Chairman. WALNUT, IOWA, PROJECT Mr. JENSEN. What is the status of the applications for a loan made by the Walnut, Iowa, people? Do you have a record here? It has been hanging fire for a year and a half. Mr. WOOLNER. I cannot tell you offhand. I will be glad to report that to the committee. Mr. JENSEN. Well, it seem that there was some question as to whether or not it was a profitmaking project and it had to be proven by the sponsoring organizations that it was not a profitmaking enterprise. Mr. WOOLNER. That is required for each applicant. Mr. JENSEN. Yes. Now I think that has been proven some time ago to the satisfaction of the man in charge of that program? Mr. WEAVER. Mr. Woolner. Mr. JENSEN. Mr. Woolner, did you talk with Julius Lynch, of Harlan, Iowa? Mr. WOOLNER. It may have been the director of that program. I did not talk to him directly. |