Mr. BATT. If the Congress was wrong, then I will say I was wrong in your opinion because I was a wholehearted supporter of the congressional action. Mr. JENSEN. Tell me where I am wrong in my statement. Mr. BATT. I would not say you are wrong because in the light in which you view it you are completely right. But I would like to point out a couple factors that you may not have taken into account. One is that it would cost us far more than this not to make a frontal attack on this problem of unemployment in the United States. The principal tools that you in the Congress have put in this act are helping communities, helping States, broaden their economic base and providing more employment. It is not taking from Peter to pay Paul. It is specifically provided in the law there will be no assistance to companies moving out of Brooklyn into North Carolina or from Massachusetts to Georgia. This kind of movement, which is perfectly free in our economy, will not be aided by this act. The economy is not something in this Nation that goes along at a level base. You can see from the statistics where new babies are being born every minute. The population is growing, as you know, by explosive amounts and their needs are growing. Mr. JENSEN. And those babies are all being taught to depend on Uncle Sam. Mr. BATT. They will be producers— Mr. JENSEN. We hope so. Mr. BATT (continuing). And they will be producing something and adding to the gross national product and they also will be consumers. The latest estimate of our gross national product, which is now running a little over $500 billion, is that the same value will be up to $520 or $530 billion. So it is not a static economy. What we are talking about here, according to the best estimates I have seen which come out of the SEC and the Department of Commerce every year, and McGraw-Hill puts some out, the free economy adds something like $30 billion yearly in new plants and about $8 billion of this is in new locations. If some small proportion of this, perhaps 5 percent over a 5-year period, were to be located in areas where people are unemployed, where a large investment has been made in streets and churches and public investments, if some small proportion were located where the people are we would solve a large part of our area unemployment in the United States and we would cut down the tremendous cost of unemployment insurance and public assistance that you speak of. I come from the State of Pennsylvania currently and in the recession of 1958, Congressman Mr. JENSEN. I have heard the same story from every agency that has appeared before the four subcommittees of which I am a member. Mr. BATT. Take the rehabilitation program which the Congress has done a fine job in supporting, such as in the case of the loss of a limband I think President Eisenhower, probably because of his service in the war, helped the program-I was in rehabilitation work in Pennsylvania and I am glad to say we rehabilitated more people than any other State in the Union. It is an expensive process to rehabilitate a man, but we found that in 2 or 3 years he paid it all back in taxes. Mr. JENSEN. Now you are delivering my address. I have been more liberal, I presume, than almost anybody in Congress in appropriating money for those people who cannot do for themselves. Mr. BATT. Right. Mr. JENSEN. For the aged, for the sick and infirm, for the disabled veterans and their dependents, and for the widows of deceased veterans, I doubt if you can find any man in the Congress who has a better record than I have. But we are able-bodied people in this blessed land of ours and we should not be helped by the Federal Government except in very, very rare occasions. Mr. BATT. Well, sir, you cannot help rehabilitate a physically handicapped man unless he has a strong will to help himself. Mr. JENSEN. If you had left out the word "communities" and stated in your statement: "The total economy is like a chain, is only as strong as the economy of the individuals that make up the Nation." I could have gone along with you. Mr. BATT. I would add the individual communities and the individual States and the individual industries. We are all, it seems to me, part and parcel of the same thing. Mr. JENSEN. I will not prolong the discussion because I can see your philosophy of government and mine are as far apart as two goals can be. Mr. THOMAS. This is a very interesting discussion and it will do the record good. Any questions? Mr. Bow. My position has been known on this in the past but I feel now we will have to implement it and then we will find out if we will reduce unemployment compensation. If it works, fine, and you will have more converts, but we have to implement it first. SITUATION IN CANTON, OHIO I was interested, in going through the papers in front of me today, to find a statement of the labor market situation in Canton, Ohio. I had never seen this before and I wondered how it got there. I am told Labor sent it up, but it is strange it was sent up to me on this committee. Mr. ROONEY. We all have one. Mr. Bow. It is interesting but it seems we should have had it some time ago. Mr. BATT. What is it? Mr. Bow. The labor market situation in the Canton, Ohio, area. Mr. BATT. That is by the Labor Department. Mr. Bow. But it says something about area redevelopment and you are the one in charge of area redevelopment, are you not? Mr. BATT. Canton is not on our list. Mr. Bow. It says: None of the three counties in the 16th Congressional District of Ohio has been designated a redevelopment area thus far, What does that "thus far" mean? Mr. BATT. Under the act they have to be unemployed for a long period of time. So that means things have not been bad enough in Canton. Mr. Bow. This is in group D. Taking the words of the President in reverse, "Do not ask what the country can do for you but what you can do for the country." Taking those words in reverse, I am a group D; what can you do for me? Mr. BATT. Well, we can help Canton, if we have not already done so, under section 10 of the act. The Congress put no limit on the areas that we could give technical information and help to. Mr. Bow. Is there anything particular about group D? Mr. BATT. No, but we would be happy, if Canton wants to get an independent development program started, we would be happy to help them do so. I told you we inherited the area development program of Commerce and they have always helped every area of the country irrespective of their employment need. We have some of the best people in the Government in this activity and will be happy to help Canton. Mr. Bow. A few days ago I received a letter stating that Mr. Bozman from Massillon, Ohio, had been appointed in this area and would I see to it that Mr. Bozman would talk to a group from Massillon if the came here. I said I was sure Mr. Bozman would be glad to talk to them. Mr. BOZMAN. That is correct. Mr. Bow. So you will have visitors from your hometown and I hope you will see them. Mr. BATT. That is steel primarily, is it not? Mr. Bow. Yes, steel. Mr. BATT. It is in rough shape. Representative Kirwan has some in his district, too. Mr. Bow. In a group D city like Canton here we have 8.5 percent of the work force unemployed, about 11,500 workers in one city, if that city was in need of a new Federal building and it was determined by GSA that ought to be constructed, that would be a means of giving real help to the people who are unemployed, would it not? Mr. BATT. Yes. That is not under our bill. Mr. Bow. But it would be helpful? Mr. BATT. Yes, it certainly would be. Mr. Bow. I would think a city like that should have a building put up right quick. Do you agree with that? Mr. BATT. I would say every community that has heavy unemploy ment should do everything possible to accelerate the public works program in that community. I think this is one way-it is a limited. way but it is one way-in which particularly building trades people would be given employment. Mr. Bow. Down in Texas there is a place that is on the area redevelopment list called Nacogdoches. Where is that and what do they get down there? Mr. BATT. The Chairman can tell you all about Nacogdoches. Nacogdoches has expressed an interest in the program. Mr. Bow. They have the greatest Congressman in the country. I do not think they need more than that. That is all, Mr. Chairman. Mr. JENSEN. Off the record. (Discussion off the record.) Mr. THOMAS. I thank you very much for being so nice and patient with us. We enjoyed the discussion between you and Mr. Jensen. Mr. BATT. I am sorry we were cut off. I thought the Congressman and I would have an extension of time. Mr. THOMAS. You were both enjoying it too much. Mr. BATT. I would love to continue with you, Congressman. Mr. JENSEN. I would love to do it publicly, on TV if possible. Any time you can get the time I will be glad to meet with you. PROJECTED ACTIVITY OF REVOLVING FUND Mr. THOMAS. In the revision of your remarks, Mr. Batt, would it be possible for you to set out the probable cost projected for 2 or 3 years, not only your own cost but that of Labor and Small Business and so forth. Put it in the form of a table in the revision of your remarks? Mr. BATT. One table for 2 or 3 years? Mr. THOMAS. Yes, Interior, Agriculture, Labor, HEW Mr. BATT. All agencies involved. Mr. BOZMAN. We can do it for 1962. I am not sure we can go be yond 1962. There is no approval by the administration of any budget after 1962. Mr. THOMAS. Your loans and grants. Mr. BOZMAN. That much we can do; yes, sir. (The information requested follows:) AREA REDEVELOPMENT ADMINISTRATION REVOLVING FUND 1 Since this projection was made amendments to the Housing Act make it unlikely that this rate of reservation will be achieved. 2 Operating costs reimbursed to SBA. 'Operating costs reimbursed to HHFA. Mr. THOMAS. Thank you very much, gentlemen. TUESDAY, AUGUST 15, 1961. DEPARTMENT OF LABOR AREA REDEVELOPMENT ACTIVITIES WITNESSES JAMES J. REYNOLDS, ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF LABOR ARYNESS JOY WICKENS, ECONOMIC ADVISER TO THE SECRETARY ROBERT C. GOODWIN, DIRECTOR, BUREAU OF EMPLOYMENT SECURITY V. S. HUDSON, DEPUTY ADMINISTRATIVE ASSISTANT SECRETARY BLUE CARSTENSON, ASSISTANT TO THE UNDER SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, EDUCATION, AND WELFARE W. P. BEARD, ASSISTANT DIRECTOR, VOCATIONAL EDUCATION, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, EDUCATION, AND WELFARE Mr. THOMAS. The committee will please come to order. We have with us this morning our friends from the Department of Labor. We are delighted to welcome Mr. James J. Reynolds, the Assistant Secretary of Labor; Aryness Joy Wickens, economic adviser to the Secretary; Robert C. Goodwin, the Director, Bureau of Employment Security; and Mr. V. S. Hudson, Deputy Administrative Assistant Secretary. GENERAL STATEMENT Mr. Reynolds, have you a statement for us? (The statement follows:) STATEMENT OF JAMES J. REYNOLDS, ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF LABOR, ON LABOR DEPARTMENT AREA REDEVELOPMENT A major objective of the Area Redevelopment Act is to provide job opportunities in those areas which have experienced substantial unemployment over a considerable period of time. Achievement of this goal calls for more than balanc |