and such a barrage of investigations from the agencies of government, while the well-heeled activities of these agencies of reaction excite no comment and provoke no inquiry. While I am here today not to ask, but to answer, questions; that is one question I should like to leave with your committee. OTHER ORGANIZATIONS TO BE INVESTIGATED The CHAIRMAN. Thank you, Mr. Hillman. I assume that you would like to take a breathing spell of about a minute. While you are doing that may I just assure you that the committee has had some plans for the investigation of these other agencies. Information has been requested from each of them, I think, with the exception of Gerald K. Smith. I must admit that we overlooked his name, but the Committee on Constitutional Government has had its letter and the National Association of Manufacturers has had its letter which is identical in form with the one sent you. They have not had an appearance before the committee because we wanted first to get a report from them. We got our report from you quickest; hence you were the first one to be examined. Mr. HILLMAN. We are delighted to be the first ones; but I would like to call to the attention of the committee that it is very important to find out the backers of the Gerald K. Smith activities now. They have been going on for years, and I am sure that it would be in the interest of the Nation to know who are the financial backers of that America First organization. The CHAIRMAN. I am sure that he will have a letter by tomorrow morning. The committee desires in its examination not to confuse you with conflicting questions coming from the various sides of the table, so we will start with the attorney, Mr. Caddell, who will ask you a series of questions, and conduct, generally speaking, the examination for the committee. Following that, if there are members of the committee who have in mind additional questions we will pursue those a little further. Mr. HILLMAN. Fine. The CHAIRMAN. I think that it would simplify things for you to respond only to the questions of Mr. Caddell. When he finishes we will have questions from the members of the committee. Mr. HILLMAN. I will be glad to do that. EXAMINATION BY COMMITTEE COUNSEL Mr. CADDELL. Mr. Hillman, I have just now received the financial statement that you submitted. The committee would like to have a detailed statement of each contributor to the C. I. O. Political Action Committee and each contributor to the National Citizens Politicaf Action Committee, 'together with the name of the contributor and the date of the contribution; we would also like to have a detailed statement of each disbursement, including the name of the person receiving the disbursement, and for what the disbursement was made. Mr. HILLMAN. Certainly. We will be glad to supply the informa tion. Mr. ABT. I am wondering if you want all of our contributions, or whether those over $100 would be sufficient. The reason I ask is that we have a large number of small contributions. I wonder if you want that information. Mr. CADDELL. I think the $100 limitation is all right. Mr. CHURCH. The dollar contributions are the important thing. Dollar contributions is what you are talking about here. The total membership of 5,000,000 at $1 each is important. Mr. HILLMAN. We will be delighted to supply it. We will have to check back. Each one is supposed to get an individual receipt. If you desire it immediately you will get very few.. The major income will probably come in within the next 4 weeks. If you desire the dollar contributions right now, of course you will not get so many, but we will accommodate ourselves to any of the desires of the committee. Mr. CADDELL. We would like to have that information immediately. Possibly we will want a supplemental list later. Mr. HILLMAN. You want the dollar contributions as well? Mr. CHURCH. A full report, all contributions with their names and addresses and all expenditures with names and addresses. Mr. CADDELL. Now, as I understand you, no expenditures will be made by the C. I. O. Political Action Committee from now until the date of the general election. Mr. HILLMAN. Only for operating expenses. The law permits expenditures for primary elections. We would still utilize that money for the primaries if we decide to make any contributions because the law is explicit on it. Mr. CADDELL. If there are any primaries between this time and the date of the general election? Mr. HILLMAN. Yes. We would like to make it clear that it is our judgment that our operating expenses are purely educational, but in order to have no argument about it, we have decided to pay all operating expenses between now and November 7 from voluntary contributions so there can be no questions whether it comes under this prohibition or not. Obviously, a number of the things we are doing are educational and no one would question that. Mr. CADDELL. The operating expenses-salaries and such-of the C. I. O. Political Action Committee are being paid out of individual voluntary contributions? Mr. HILLMAN. That is right, voluntary contributions. CONTRIBUTIONS TO CANDIDATES Mr. CADDELL. Now, what type of expenditures do you expect to make by the National Citizens Political Action Committee between this date and the date of the general election? Mr. HILLMAN. I would like to use the exact wording that I have used in my statement-"giving financial assistance to or on behalf of candidates whom the committee supports; bringing to the attention of the electorate the issues of the 1944 election campaign and the records of the candidates for office, through the use of the press, pamphlets, posters, the radio, public meetings, and other appropriate media and urging all qualified citizens to register and vote. That means if we decide on the request of a local organization to give actual financial support to a candidate Mr. CADDELL. Do you mean a candidate for the House of Representatives? Mr. HILLMAN. That is right, or the Senate. Mr. CADDELL. The National Citizens Political Action Committee will make contributions to candidates for election to the United States House of Representatives in the general elections? Mr. HILLMAN. That is right-if the money is available, of course. Mr. CADDELL. Will the National Citizens Political Action Committee make contributions to the Democratic National Committee in support of the election of the President and the Vice President? Mr. HILLMAN. We certainly do not intend doing it. We have no intention of collecting money for the National Democratic Committee. We think whatever money we will collect will be used for the kind of work that we are engaged in. Mr. CADDELL. You expect to make expenditures in support of the election of the Democratic nominees? Mr. HILLMAN. As stated, we have endorsed Mr. Roosevelt and Mr. Truman, and of course we are going to campaign for them. We will engage in the distribution of literature. We will pay attention to the record of Mr. Dewey, or his lack of record. And of course that is in connection with the election. We have no intention of supplying money to the National Democratic Committee. Mr. CADDELL. Do you expect to spend any money in local campaigning in any localities in support of Mr. Roosevelt and Mr. Truman? Mr. HILLMAN. The distribution of literature of course is made in the localities. Of course, we will have to send our speakers to the localities, and in that sense, yes. We have no intention of making a contribution to the National Democratic Committee or to the State committees. Mr. CADDELL. What type of expenditures and disbursements do you expect to make after the date of the national election? Mr. HILLMAN. We expect to carry on our educational work, to explain the issues in connection with bills before the Congress-to point out what is at stake, to hold meetings and carry on the general educational work that labor organizations have always carried on and which work we are doing more effectively, we believe, than others. There is nothing new in what we are doing. Mr. CADDELL. Both the C. I. O. Political Action Committee and the National Citizens Political Action Committee? Mr. HILLMAN. The National Citizens Political Action Committee has been organized, as the record shows, for activity to extend up to November 7. Unless this committee takes other action, I take it that it will be dissolved. It will be up to them to take action. The national committee is organized for the purpose of helping to elect Roosevelt and Truman and a progressive Congress, as set forth in the purposes here. There is no commitment for the National Citizens Political Action Committee to function after November 7 unless specific action is taken then by the people of the committee. Mr. CADDELL. I noticed in an article by Mr. Louis Waldman in the Saturday Evening Post of August 26 a statement that it is the future plan for all collections to be made by, and contributions received by, the National Citizens Political Action Committee, and for that committee to finance the C. I. O. Political Action Committee itself. Is that true? Mr. HILLMAN. I would say that Mr. Waldman, or other Dewey sources would be more competent to testify. Mr. Waldman is not a member of our committee. I have not seen Mr. Waldman for a long time. His article is part of that campaign of propaganda. Mr. CADDELL, Mr. Waldman, I understand, is an attorney for some of the C. I. O. unions, is he not? Mr. HILLMAN. I understand that he is an attorney for a local organization of the Amalgamated Clothing Workers of America. I have nothing to say against his ability and competence as a lawyer. He is now going into the field of political campaigning for Mr. Dewey. Of course, that is his privilege, but he certainly cannot speak for us. He is speaking for himself. VOLUNTARY CONTRIBUTIONS Mr. CADDELL. Now, is the National Citizens Political Action Committee requesting individual members of labor unions, or other individuals to make voluntary contributions to any specific candidate? Mr. HILLMAN. No. The National Citizens Political Action Committee has made a public appeal for contributions. Their resources so far are exactly what you have seen here in the statement. Mr. CADDELL. What I want to know is whether you are putting on any kind of a drive for individual contributions to individual candidates in any localities. Mr. HILLMAN. No. As far as we are concerned, no. I do not know of any, nor do we have any intention of making any for individual candidates. We expect and hope to get reasonable sums and then we will decide in what way we can make the best use of the money to attain our purposes, which means the election of the ticket. Mr. CADDELL. You did say that the National Citizens Political Action Committee may make contributions itself? Mr. HILLMAN. Yes. Mr. CADDELL. Now, there has been frozen a balance of approximately $300,000 except for the individual contributions that are being used to pay expenses-salaries and expenses of operation. Mr. HILLMAN. No operating expenses are being paid any more from the union contributions fund. All salaries of the C. I. O. Political Action Committee as of July 23, are paid from voluntary contributions, and that is why you find there an item of borrowed money. Obviously, we did not have the funds, so we borrowed money from individuals. Mr. CADDELL. Those are contributions which have been received by the C. I. O. Political Action Committee? Mr. HILLMAN. From individuals. No moneys from the union treasury contributions have been used for any operating expenses such as salaries, travel, literature, or similar expenses-since the 23d. Mr. CHURCH. Of July? CONGRESS OF INDUSTRIAL ORGANIZATIONS-POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE FUNDS FROZEN Mr. HILLMAN. July, after the convention. In other words, we believe we have a right to do a lot of things under the law, but we do not want to have any public debate as to whether we are or are not within our rights, and we have decided to freeze this fund and just depend upon voluntary contributions for all of our expenditures outside of primaries where contributions from unions are specifically permitted by law. Mr. CADDELL. You have made no expenditures since the date of the Democratic National Convention? Mr. HILLMAN. That is right, except from voluntary contributions and from trade union contributions, in connection with primaries. Mr. CADDELL. And you expect to make none after the national election? Mr. HILLMAN. We expect to live within our budget as moneys come in. LOCAL POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE AND NATIONAL CITIZENS POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE ORGANIZATIONS Mr. CADDELL. Now, are there in addition to the C. I. O. Political Action Committee and the National Citizens Political Action Committee any local political action committees, on a State basis, or a congressional district basis? Mr. HILLMAN. They have been functioning before we even organized, and of course there are a considerable number of local organizations. Mr. CADDELL. We would like to have you outline to us just what local organizations there are. Mr. HILLMAN. I could not say. I would not know most of them. We have 14 regional directors. The directors are responsible to us. They coordinate the organization and the political activities of the C. I. O. unions who are willing to cooperate with them. If a C. I. O. union does not desire to cooperate, there is nothing that can be done about it, and that is that. There is no compulsion about it. Now, some of the local unions always have had what they call their political committees. They will write to their Congressmen and Senators, supporting or opposing a bill. Mr. CADDELL. Do those local committees have expenditures that are not directly authorized by the national office? Mr. HILLMAN. Whatever expense is incurred through our regional offices will be reported to you as expenditures. Mr. CADDELL. But as to the local political action committee Mr. HILLMAN. That is completely outside our jurisdiction. We just coordinate their activities. We have had two major propositions as to policy. We had a conference, as I have reported, in January of this year in New York City. Over 300 people from all over the country representing not merely labor but agriculture, the churches, small business, all of them came for 2 days and discussed the problems of full employment. Later, we held another conference and adopted a program. We are merely supplying the local organizations with this program and the kind of literature that will encourage registration and other things. Mr. CADDELL. Do these local political committees, such as the congressional district committee, make contributions to local candidates' campaigns? Mr. HILLMAN. I do not think they would do that. Mr. CADDELL. Do you know whether they carry on any campaign for individual contributions for individual candidates? |