Mr. MURPHY. I probably have been, but we want to have them before the committee as a committee so the committee might use them. Mr. GAYLORD. Yes. Mr. MURPHY. Is Thomas J. Hargrave connected with your national association in any way? Mr. GAYLORD. The company that he is an officer of is a member. Mr. GAYLORD. He is still a director. Mr. MURPHY. Is he not also some kind of regional director or head in charge of your activities in the Gannett area in New York City? Mr. GAYLORD. We would not have any activity in the Gannett area. Mr. MURPHY. What particular position does Mr. Hargrave hold with your organization-just director? Mr. GAYLORD. Just a director, and I am sorry it slipped my mind Mr. MURPHY. He is also connected with Mr. Gannett. Mr. GAYLORD. I do not know. PUBLIC SPEAKERS Mr. MURPHY. These speakers that are sent out by the N. I. I. C. are paid by them also, are they not? Mr. GAYLORD. Some of them are. Most of them are businessmen who volunteer their time. There are one or two professional speakers, particularly for those meetings that we hold with the employees. Mr. MURPHY. You say that neither your organization nor the Ñ. I. I. C. have sent out any publications which have discussed the relative merits of Mr. Dewey and Mr. Bricker as contrasted to those of Mr. Roosevelt and Mr. Truman. Mr. GAYLORD. That is right. Mr. MURPHY. It is a fact, however, is it not, that you do conduct an educational campaign by way of meetings throughout the country and you will continue to conduct the educational campaign throughout the remainder of the year at which times representatives of your organization will discuss with church and women's groups your particular stand on business generally and as to how it is affected by legislation? Mr. GAYLORD. That is not the purpose of those meetings, Mr. Murphy. The meetings are to answer the questions that people have about the operation of business and to promote the private enterprise system. Those words are used so much now. Actually it is to promote the capitalistic system as opposed to communism or socialism. Mr. MURPHY. I notice by the returns of the Labor Department that business in this particular year has netted $8,000,000,000 in profits after taxes. The free-enterprise system, in your judgment, would be working pretty well, would it not? Mr. GAYLORD. That is pretty good, until you consider the volume of business. Those figures show about $300,000,000,000 worth of sales. They are before reserves. They are before renegotiation and contract termination, but even at that they show a net profit of about 2.8 cents on each dollar of sale, whereas the peacetime profit is more than that. In the years preceding the war-which were not good years-it was about 2.9 cents per dollar of sales. I submit that is a pretty good record. Mr. MURPHY. Would you consider the bulk of that produced and earned by free enterprises? Mr. GAYLORD. It is produced and earned by men-the free enterprise system is what they operate under. Mr. MURPHY. It is produced by American business, and would you not say that the great bulk of it is free enterprise? Are not the men doing a good job under the war effort? Mr. GAYLORD. Yes. No system produces of itself. It is the men and the guts and the brains and the daring they have that do the producing. You know that as well as I do. Mr. MURPHY. Would you call it the free enterprise system or would you say that we do not have it today in American business? Mr. GAYLORD. We have the free enterprise system today. BUDGET Mr. MURPHY. Will you also furnish to the committee a copy of the budget which will outline the amount of money allocated to the N. I. I. C., showing the amount of contributions and dues, and also showing the way in which the N. I. I. C. has spent its money during 1943 and 1944? Mr. GAYLORD. Yes. That is public information. Mr. MURPHY. Generally, what amount or what percentage of $3,000,000 did you say was allocated in 1943 to the N. I. I. C.? Mr. GAYLORD. In 1943 the N. I. I. C. spent $1,037,838.10. Mr. MURPHY. And in the current year you are expecting to spend $1,385,000? Mr. GAYLORD. The expenditures are going forward at that rate at the present time. Mr. MURPHY. And you will outline for the committee the nature of the expenditures as well as the nature of the receipts? Mr. GAYLORD. This report for 1943 indicates how it is divided. (The report referred to is as follows:) Summary of financial operations of National Industrial Information Committee, 1943 Unexpended balance carried over from 1942 for commitments and operating expenses in early part of 1943. Income Expenditures Added to balance during 1943----- Unexpended balance, Dec. 31, 1943. $1,050, 043. 85 $1, 549, 945. 17 512, 107. 07 1,562, 150.95 Source and distribution of National Industrial Information Committee income in 1943 National Industrial Information Committee income came from the following sources: 1. From 6,231 subscribers in 48 States-. 2. From miscellaneous refunds, etc‒‒‒‒‒ Total National Industrial Information Committee income was distributed in the following manner: 1. For activities directed to employees and the general public-(a) Press services___ (b) Radio___. (c) Motion pictures.. (d) Employee literature and speakers- 2. For activities directed to opinion-molding groups $1, 547, 264. 87 2, 680.30 1, 549, 945. 17 300, 486. 88 91, 117. 04 104, 216. 08 50, 010. 25 17, 134. 94 38, 008. 57 359, 284. 04 (a) Conferences with educators, clergymen, women's 144, 059. 22 215, 224. 82 100, 890. 66 82, 448. 48 18, 442. 18 (b) Literature and visual education materials to serve 3. For activities directed to stimulating management's interest (a) National campaign by National Industrial Infor- (b) Other meetings and literature_-‒‒‒‒‒ 4. For activities involving special subject matter_. (a) Patents_. (b) Employment relations_. (c) Americanism (d) Servicing inquiries for special information____ 5. Joint operating expenses allocable to above activities______ (a) Rent and light- (b) Telephone and telegraph, equipment, stationery, etc.'_ Added to unexpended balance to guarantee commitments and operating expenses in early part of 1944. Grand total_--- 1 Includes inventory of $19,523.08. 31, 528. 48 3, 360. 71 15, 202. 41 6, 551. 04 6, 414. 32 119, 728. 40 33, 528.80 46, 831. 45 13, 193. 72 8, 517.35 17, 657. 08 51, 692. 13 74, 227. 51 43, 790. 31 15, 420. 24 15, 016. 96 1,037, 838. 10 512, 107. 07 1, 549, 945. 17 Mr. MURPHY. In the charter of your organization you do have a provision for the support of legislation in furtherance of those principles, and opposition legislation in derogation thereof? Mr. GAYLORD. Yes. Mr. MURPHY. Do you issue any pamphlets or publications to the public in support of legislation and in opposition to legislation in derogation of your principles? Mr. GAYLORD. I do not believe that there are any pamphlets on that at all. This work is divided up under a number of committees, and in their reports they do sometimes contribute legislation. Mr. MURPHY. The N. I. I. C. is a committee which has been allocated this sum of money about which you have just testified? Mr. GAYLORD. Yes. Mr. MURPHY. That committee is, in your judgment, an educational committee so that the public may be properly informed on what your organization stands for in regard, first, to business. Mr. GAYLORD. Yes; the system under which we believe the economics of this country can best be operated. Mr. MURPHY. That is what you stand for, according to your charter. which is 50 years old. Mr. GAYLORD. Yes; understand, we have another program of our own studies and we exchange information educating ourselves, which is an important part of it. Mr. MURPHY. And does not your N. I. I. C. also educate the members and the general public and the Members of Congress, the Senate and the House, as to your attitude on legislation? Mr. GAYLORD. The experience I have had since I have been in business is that Congress is not very much interested in the attitude of business. Mr. MURPHY. By attitude I mean the reasons, the underlying principles. Mr. GAYLORD. Reviewing the facts and experience, yes; but as far as to the attitude as to whether we are for or against something, I am thoroughly convinced Congress does not care very much whether business is for or against. They are interested in what is good for the country. All we can do is to supply them information toward that end. Mr. MURPHY. I do not mean that you say yes or no for them, or do their thinking for them, or point out the obvious, but do you not discuss the underlying principles involved in legislation as to whether it is good legislation or bad legislation, and give the reasons for it? Mr. GAYLORD. Yes. Mr. MURPHY. And that is one of the functions of this committee of yours, and part of the function for which this money is spent, is it not? Mr. GAYLORD. The committee does not work with the Congress. Mr. MURPHY. The N. I. I. C. at no time contacts Congress; is that it? Mr. GAYLORD. The directors of the National Association of Manufacturers are responsible for both activities, so it just simply happens this committee goes to the members and the public and the employees, but any contacts with Congressmen or legislative bodies are made by the National Association of Manufacturers itself through other committees. Mr. MURPHY. In other words, the National Association of Manufacturers deals with Congress directly insofar as any publications are sent to Congress. Mr. GAYLORD. Or indirectly through other committees than this one. Mr. MURPHY. Whereas the N. I. I. C. is meant to educate the mem bers, to inform the members, to inform the directors, and to inform the public and to conduct meetings among the public so the public might be informed on the attitude of your organization. Mr. GAYLORD. Right. Mr. MURPHY. Have the National Association of Manufacturers or the N. I. I. C., either group, paid for any radio advertising in the last few years, or have they contracted for any radio programs for the balance of the year? Mr. GAYLORD. Yes. Mr. MURPHY. Now, will you furnish to the committee the radio time and the purposes of that radio time? Mr. GAYLORD. Last year we spent $104.216.08 for radio. That was for activities directed to employees and the general public. Mr. MURPHY. And you propose now, between now and November 7, to spend additional money on radio programs? Mr. GAYLORD. What is November 7? Mr. MURPHY. That is election day. Mr. GAYLORD. I do not know anything about that as far as the program is concerned. Mr. MURPHY. Do you propose spending anything between now and the end of the year on radio? Mr. GAYLORD. Yes. We will carry on the regular program that has been in existence right through. Mr. MURPHY. I hope that you will understand me, sir, when I say November 7. I am asking that because we as a committee have a definite responsibility to go into that. Mr. GAYLORD. I hope you understand too. The reason I called attention to it is that I want to emphasize in every way I can that these programs are conducted regardless of elections, and regardless of election years, The CHAIRMAN. You have heard that there is going to be an election in November; have you not? Mr. GAYLORD. I have heard it; yes. Mr. MURPHY. Suppose that I make this request of you: Will you give the committee a statement as to the radio time and the amount appropriated for the full year of 1943, and a statement of the radio time and the amount appropriated for the full year 1944? Mr. GAYLORD. I can tell you now what was done in 1943, and then we will have to supply you. Radio activities consisting of a weekly half-hour program called This Nation at War which was broadcast coast to coast over 90 stations. It featured a story of industry's cooperation with the armed forces and a series of special programs dealing with specific industries such as lumber, steel, banking, drugs, and so forth. Mr. MURPHY. Is Upton Close one of your broadcasters? Mr. GAYLORD. I wish you would not ask me that because I do not know. Mr. MURPHY. He is on Mr. Kemper's broadcast. I was wondering if he was on yours. Mr. GAYLORD. No; he is not. A special series of talks on post-war jobs for soldiers were made by representative leaders of 20 major |