On April 1, when this new Administrator was appointed under this authority, that had been reduced down to $350 million by the people that we then had in the RFC, and we then at that time had to take it over into the Treasury, if you recall. On April 1, 1954, Mr. Robbins became Administrator of the RFC.

Then in September 1954, when it was moved into the Treasury, back to the title that you have now provided for because there was no longer that position in the RFC, it had been reduced down to $257 million, and on January 1, just a few days ago, it was down to $155

million.

In other words, we have come down from $591 million to $155. million.

Now, that liquidation is still going on. As you well know, as we near the bottom of the barrel the difficulties in handling these matters are increased. I think that is an excellent record of progress when you think of the hundreds of things that had to be done in that time, and I hope very much that this will continue for another year, because we can pay for it a hundred times over by having it well done as we get toward the end. There is still considerably more that has to be looked after, and the more difficult problems are always the latest problems, and they give you the most grief in working them out, and we do not want to have to make changes in our administration to get them accomplished.

Mr. GARY. How long do you estimate it will be necessary to continue this position?

Secretary HUMPHREY. I cannot tell you, Mr. Chairman, and I would not want to make an estimate on that. I would like to ask the committee for 1 more year, and at the end of the year we will report the progress we have made to you and show to you the extent it may be justified in the future.

NUMBER OF RFC LOANS REMAINING

Mr. GARY. How many loans or accounts do the figures that you have just stated represent?

Secretary HUMPHREY. Mr. Robbins, can you answer that roughly? Mr. ROBBINS. As of September 28, 1953 there were almost 5,000 loans. Now, 2,800 of those went into the pool which was set up for the smaller loans, and that number comes out of the total.

On June 30, 1955 there were 633 loans remaining, and on December 31 there were 527 loans remaining.

Secretary HUMPHREY. That is in addition to your 2,800 pool loans. Mr. ROBBINS. Yes, there are still about 1,200 loans in the pool. Secretary HUMPHREY. The force is being reduced as rapidly as possible. We are cutting it down and cutting down on office space. All you have to do is take these figures and examine them, and I think you will see that it is a very excellent showing for a tremendous liquidation. When you move about $600 million down to $150 million in that short period of time, that is real liquidation.

Mr. ROBBINS. These figures give no effect to the defense production loans which are also being handled there.

Secretary HUMPHREY. There are a lot of other things that this same man does, including service in my stead, on the Loan Policy Board of the Small Business Administration.

JOINT ACCOUNTING IMPROVEMENT PROGRAM

Mr. GARY. Mr. Secretary, can you give us some idea of the present status of the joint accounting improvement program of the Treasury, the Bureau of the Budget, and the General Accounting Office?

Secretary HUMPHREY. No, I cannot, but Mr. Heffelfinger has some information on that.

Mr. HEFFELFINGER. We are still working actively on that and are making some progress on it in the various agencies in the Treasury and getting our new systems under way.

Mr. GARY. I expect that we may go into that later on.

Secretary HUMPHREY. If I don't get a lot of those figures on one piece of paper sometimes I get mixed up, as I do not know much about accounting.

Mr. GARY. This committee has been very greatly interested in that joint accounting program. We feel that offers a real possibility of getting some proper accounting procedures in the various Government departments and agencies. Considerable progress in improving accounting procedures of the Government has been made and we are very anxious that it continue.

Secretary HUMPHREY. Yes, we will do so.

Mr. CANFIELD. Secretary Humphrey, I am glad that you are Secretary of the Treasury.

I am glad that you have the team in the Treasury that you do have, and I feel that by and large throughout the country the American people feel the same way.

Were a poll to be conducted by some reputable polling organization on how you and your team are conducting your assignment in these days, I think you would be most agreeably surprised by the results.

SERVICES OF MR. ROSE

During the current year I believe some changes have been made in your team, and some changes are projected. Will you at this time discuss those briefly?

Secretary HUMPHREY. Well, I presume the change which you are referring to is the resignation of Mr. Rose?

Mr. CANFIELD. Yes, which I regret to hear about.

Secretary HUMPHREY. The resignation of Mr. Rose takes effect the end of this month.

I just want to stay, gentlemen, that Mr. Rose has been one of the finest public servants that I have ever been in contact with.

I have known Mr. Rose for many years. He has been closely associated with me in business for many years. I knew that he was an extremely capable man in business, but his performance in the Government has just been excellent in every regard, and we are going to miss him very much, indeed.

On the other hand I am thoroughly reconciled to his leaving, and thoroughly approve of his leaving, and I think he ought to leave. I think he has other obligations to himself and in other directions that are so overpowering that I do not think he ought to stay here any longer. He cannot conscientiously remain here, and I would

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not want him to, so that it just leaves a void that we have to try to fill. Now, just how well we will do it, I do not know.

Mr. Rose has unusually adaptable qualities, and he fills a great many niches in the kind of things that come to him. You see, the work of the Treasury, gentlemen, and of Treasury staff is only partially the direct Treasury work in many regards. Our job is to be active with respect to money, wherever money appears in the Government. It It may be here or abroad, and when you think of how few things there are that the Government can do that do not involve money you realize how few activities of the Government there are that do not somehow involve the Treasury and the Treasury staff in participation in them and in the determinations. Again I want to get back to this Assistant Secretary. We require the services of men of capacity in many different fields and in different areas if we are going to do our job and our assigned duties, and still continue to do them.

We will miss Mr. Rose very greatly indeed, and we will miss him in many, many places, and so will the Government as a whole.

Mr. CANFIELD. Secretary Humphrey, this committee is going to miss him. Quite frankly, he has become quite a favorite with our committee group, and we have recognized his dedicated sense of loyalty to the Treasury and to the Congress and the American people.

We know how he has applied himself to the fullest in his very important assignment, and, as the Washington Post put it editorially yesterday morning, we just hate to see a man like Chapman Rose leaving the service of the United States Government.

Mr. GARY. Will the gentleman yield?

Mr. CANFIELD. Yes, I will be happy to yield to my_chairman.

Mr. GARY. Mr. Secretary, I would like to say that I did not enjoy the same privilege that you did. I did not know Mr. Rose until he came with the Government, but I have found him a most efficient public employee. He has been exceedingly cooperative, and he has been pleasant to work with. I wrote him a letter the other day in which I told him that he had established a record of which he may be justly proud, and I want to say that I am sorry to see him leaving the Government service.

Secretary HUMPHREY. I am sure that we can all join with you in that deep regret.

Mr. ROSE. I thank you very much, gentlemen, and I am very sorry to be going.

Mr. CANFIELD. It may please you, Mr. Rose, to hear just a few of the comments that are being passed out on the floor of the House by Members on both sides of the aisle. You have definitely made a very high mark in your service in the Federal Government, and it is not going to be forgotten.

BIOGRAPHICAL SKETCH OF NEW GENERAL COUNSEL

Mr. GARY. In connection with the changes which have been made in the Treasury Department, we are glad today to have present Mr. Fred G. Scribner, Jr., the new General Counsel. Mr. Scribner, it is customary in this committee to have a new person taking a position of this kind to place a short biography in the record for the benefit

of the Members of Congress. We would appreciate your giving us a short background statement at this time.

(The statement requested is as follows:)

FRED CLARK SCRIBNER, JR.

General Counsel, Treasury Department, appointed August 1955.
Place and date of birth: Bath, Me., February 14, 1908.

Father: Fred Clark Scribner; mother: Emma Cheltra.

Education Dartmouth College (A. B. 1930); Harvard Law School (LL.B. 1933). Married: Barbara C. Merrill. Date: August 24, 1935.

Children: Fred C. Scribner III, Curtis M. Scribner, Charles D. Scribner. 1933 admitted to the bar in Maine and Massachusetts.

1935-55 partner in firm of Hutchinson, Pierce, Atwood & Scribner (resigned September 1955)

November 1946 elected general counsel, vice president, and treasurer of Bates Manufacturing Co., Lewiston, Me. (resigned September 1955)

Director: Bates Manufacturing Co., Lewiston, Me.

Director: Rockland-Rockport Lime Co., Inc., Rockland, Me. 1938-40 chairman, Maine Council Young Republican Clubs.

1940-50 member of Republican State committee.

1948-56 Republican National committeeman from Maine.

August 1952 appointed general counsel of the Republican National Committee by Chairman Arthur E. Summerfield (resigned 1955)

1940 and 1944 delegate, Republican National Convention.

Member standing committee and Diocesan Council, Episcopal Diocese of Maine. Chancellor, diocese of Maine.

Delegate, General Convention of the Protestant Episcopal Church, 1943. 1946, and 1952.

Memberships: Portland Club; Woodfords Club; Masons; Kiwanis; Settlers;
American Bar Association; Maine State Bar Association; Cumberland County
Bar Association; Phi Beta Kappa; Delta Sigma Rho; Alpha Chi Rho.
Director: Maine General Hospital, Portland, Maine; Pine Tree Council; Boy
Scouts of America; Maine Home for Boys; New England Council.
Incorporator: Maine Savings Bank.

Mr. CANFIELD. Secretary Humphrey, in your statement today you use this expression: "Our country is witnessing a period of phenomenal growth." Can you document that?

The jurisdiction of this committee also embraces the Post Office Department, and the Postmaster General just a few days ago in his original presentation used almost the same expression, and he pointed out that during the new fiscal year the volume of mail increased almost 3 percent, and that some 5,000 or 6,000 extensions of city delivery service will have to be made into so-called suburbia and that every year a new and onerous task is imposed on the Post Office Department of the United States because of the growth of our country, and, of course, the Treasury Department has to face those facts of life, as every other department does.

I read the New York Times just a few minutes ago and it quotes from Members of Congress who are very critical of the President's budget, and in the main I would say that they are the Members of Congress who down through the years vote for almost all appropriation measures and who rarely sponsor amendments on the floor of the House to effect economies in appropriation bills.

I have in mind this fact, that last year we increased Federal expenditures perhaps by a billion dollars plus because we increased the salaries, and properly so, of our Military Establishment and the employees of the Federal Government. Those things are bound to come, and those things are bound to increase the amount of Federal ɔudgets in a growing country like the United States of America.

It will be interesting, Mr. Humphrey, as we carry out our assignments in the Congress during the coming months to see how many Members will rise on the floor of the House to sponsor cuts in these appropriation bills having to do with our Military Establishment, and bills having to do with the health and the general welfare of our people. Now, we have under our jurisdiction the Bureau of Customs, the Bureau of Narcotics, and the Coast Guard of the United States.

BUREAU OF NARCOTICS

I have one question, Mr. Secretary, about each of those. Dr. Anslinger, head of the Bureau of Narcotics, down through the years has kept his budget rather tight. Do you feel in the newly projected figures for 1957 that he is being accorded all the funds he needs to meet his responsibilities?

Secretary HUMPHREY. Well, I will just say this generally, and I am sure that Mr. Burgess and Mr. Rose will be glad to go into Mr. Anslinger's particular situation with you in detail, but I will say just generally that you have asked a question to which the answer is "No," and it will be asked many times and the answer many times will be "No." When you say has any department all of the funds it needs or that it can use, I do not think that is the criterion, and I do not think that is the answer to it. I think that what you have to do is to recognize that there are many, many places in this Government, as there are in every business, and as there are in your own home, with your own family, that there are many places where you could use more money, and where the members of your family could use more money, and do it advantageously, but you cannot let them do it, and you cannot let them do it in business. In the Government there are many things that the Government might do, and that would probably be beneficial, and be quite all right, but you cannot do it because of the fact that you have to balance what you can take from the taxpayers with what you can afford to spend.

There are many of these presentations which are going to be made to the budget committees where that question is asked the way you ask it, are you getting all the money you ought to have, and the answer is going to be "No." If you ask is that all the money you would like to have, or all of the money you could usefully use the answer will be "No." That is not the right answer because it always depends upon what is good, and right, and proper to collect from the people and what you can afford to spend for their benefit. Now, you could spend enough money for the benefit of the people so you could ruin the people.

Mr. CANFIELD. About 2 years ago there was organized what I believe was called the Interdepartmental Committee on Narcotics. That leads to this question: Is that committee an active committee? Secretary HUMPHREY. When you get into the details of the Department Mr. Rose will have to answer that. Narcotics is a serious thing and it is a spectacular thing. It is a thing that requires attention and consideration all the time, but on the other hand, while it has farreaching effects from the point of view of crime and all of that there is a relatively small number of the people of this country who are involved directly, and it has to be kept in balance with the other programs which are being carried on.