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The students formed in groups and when they came to us they had already formed their little cliques and groups and had decided they were going to do what they wanted to do the way they wanted to do it.

As a group they were really strong, they could whip the Russian Army by themselves. But when they graduated, one went here and one went there and one went there and they just completely fell apart within 2 months.

Ninety percent of them were gone you see. Fortunately with our graduate association and things like that were able to bring most of them back and we have practically all of them now back into the work force out of 530.

There are only 30 people that we know who are not working who have been in our program.

We don't have to recruit people. They are all recruited for us by relatives or people who have been in the program or even those who have been put out of the program.

Senator NELSON. I realize that the training period would vary depending upon attitudes and so forth. But what is the medium or the average length of time to train a draftsman so that they are prepared to start work and be productive?

Mr. FAJORS. I would say the optimum time is 20 weeks. We have some who are able to do them earlier and we have some who it takes longer. But our training is individualized.

Another statement made in the training was 18 weeks initiallyafter the 18 weeks we had graduation, that everybody was graduated.

Of course everybody was not ready. We now do it only on an individual basis. I would say 20 weeks is an optimum time, based on a 7 or 8 graded.

Senator NELSON. This includes the first day they arrive?

Mr. FAJORS. Yes.

Senator NELSON. How long does it take to train a stenographer?
Mr. FAJORS. A Secretary, it takes approximately the same time.
Senator NELSON. Does this include typing or shorthand?

Mr. FAJORS. It includes formal shorthand and a stenotype also. The girls spend 10 weeks, the first 10 weeks in typing, business English, basic education, this kind of thing.

Then the last 10 weeks they spend in specializations, in learning office procedures and learning business, how to make payrolls and what secretaries really need to know, how to be able to dress and how to be able to talk and how to be able to make decisions.

Senator NELSON. But after 20 weeks

Mr. FAJORS. Competitive. Not just for Raytheon. Our original program was the MA-2 and we did not have to hire them. So they went out competitively and took examinations and have been able to really actually compete on their own.

Senator NELSON. How many skills do you train in your program? Mr. FAJORS. The male and female is about 50 percent each: 51 percent female and 49 percent male.

But they have to decide themselves after the 10 weeks whether they feel that they have a personality. It takes personality and self

confidence.

Senator NELSON. How many different skills do you have?

Mr. FAJORS. We have six: drafting, technical illustrating, secretarial, clerk typist, keypunch, general office procedure, and basic computer.

Senator NELSON. We are certainly pleased to have you come. I think that is one of the problems that we have, that in many places there is not a good orientation program, or a follow-up of the kind that you do.

Have you ever thought of putting together a manual of how to plan your procedures, to be usable by other employers?

Mr. FAJORS. I have one that we use and I have let the other Boston area places use it.

I am completely in agreement with you that this should be done. I have not done it because I was sort of jealous of my triple ST program and just for a selfish reason I did not do it.

But I am now convinced that this has to be done.

Senator NELSON. I would think that since it took Raytheon some training experience you started with a retention of 30 and got up to 90-it ought to be helpful to have basic documents so that other employers could skip the learning that Raytheon had to go through and especially when you show the statistics and the kind of guidance, the kind of technical assistance, and the kind of personnel you need. I think it would be quite valuable and the Department of Labor ought to want it for distribution and for some kind of a guideline of its own on how you structure a program so that it is going to succeed.

Mr. FAJORS. Again I confess that the only reason it has not been done is because of my selfishness. This is really a culmination of 10 years at least. I just did not want to give it to anybody.

But as I say, I am convinced that if poor people are going to be helped, it has to be done.

Senator NELSON. Have you prepared the training manual now?
Mr. FAJORS. Yes, I do have it.

Senator NELSON. Do you have one you could loan me?

Mr. FAJORS. I have one with me but I have not shown it to Raytheon. I would rather send it to you.

Mr. HENNEMUTH. Mr. Chairman, we will be happy to now that Herb has no objection to advancing this to your committee.

Mr. HENNEMUTH. I would like to comment, however, that the character of the person who gives the program is another extremely important part of it and this is where Herb has made a special personal contribution, because the conducting of those sessions, these folks in one room and the give and take that goes on, but that is no reason to say it could not be used.

We will be glad to provide it.

Senator NELSON. I think it could be very valuable to the committee and to the Department of Labor also.

Senator NELSON. Thank you very much.

Our final witness today is Mr. Sheldon Roodman, Community Legal Counsel, Chicago, Ill. We are glad to have you with us and we appreciate your taking the time to come.

STATEMENT OF SHELDON ROODMAN, COMMUNITY LEGAL
COUNSEL, CHICAGO, ILL.

Mr. ROODMAN. Thank you, Senator Nelson.

My name is Sheldon Řoodman. I am an attorney with Community Legal Counsel, an OEO Research and Demonstration Project in the city of Chicago.

This statement has been prepared with the assistance and the cooperation of Mr. Gilbert Walter, the project administrator for the Northwest Employment Development Corp., who has been involved in the day-to-day administration of the MA-3 program.

First let me outline the nature of the manpower program with which I have been associated for the last year and a half. On September 3, 1968, a consortium of 24 industrial employers located on the near northwest side of Chicago executed a JOBS MA-3 contract for 169 jobs with the U.S. Department of Labor Manpower Administration.

The consortium group was organized by an association of local companies called the Industrial Council of the Northwest Community, Inc. In January 1969, 4 months after the program contract had been signed the program still had not commenced.

I was called by the local community organization, the Northwest Community Organization, which was interested in having a role in the development of any manpower training program for the hardcore unemployed in its area.

After discussions and negotiations with officers of the Industrial Council, it was decided that a community-owned corporation be established to administer the MA-3 program and to provide the training and supportive services under the MA-3 contract.

Hence, Northwest Employment Development Corp. (hereinafter referred to as NED Corporation) was set up with ownership divided between the local community organization and three industrial leaders, and with the board of directors comprised of the three members of industry, three community leaders, and myself.

My role has been to serve as legal advisor, secretary of NED, and a member of the board of directors.

Within this setting, I and the project administrator, have the following observations and comments about the efficacy of the JOBS program, which we hope will provide the basis for some constructive changes in the Government's program for the hard-core unemployed, which certainly warrants vast and resourceful measures to deal with the complex problems.

A. Initial implementation plans, including financial plans, must be a prerequisite to the execution of any JOBS contract.

B. The job-related education component is not designed or financed to achieve its purpose.

C. The on the Job (OJT) training component is in the main illu

sory.

D. Low-skill and low-wage jobs included in the JOBS program do not offer sufficient inducement for retention or sufficient training to overcome the handicaps of the hard-core unemployment.

A. INITIAL IMPLEMENTATION PLANS MUST BE A PREREQUISITE TO

THE EXECUTIVE OF ANY JOBS CONTRACT

Initial implementation of the program was beset with problems. First there was an acute lack of understanding among the MA-3 employers of the basic goals of the JOBS program. In September 1968 our project director first met with officers of each of 24 companies then listed on the contract as participants.

Of the 24 individuals who were named the persons responsible for contract performance he found only seven who were reasonably articulate in the consortium project's stated objective of employing unskilled, unemployed, and mainly non-English-speaking persons and preparing them for permanent employment.

Four employers refused to sign their subcontract and withdrew from the consortium immediately. All but one of five companies subsequently deleted from the consortium, were invited out because of a clear refusal or inability to hire and train a disadvantaged person from among the main local unemployed group, the Spanish speaking.

Also the fixed unit cost reimbursement schedule failed to provide for initial start-ups costs of the training program, estimated by an experienced accounting firm to approximate $50,000.

Moreover, the executive committee of the consortium first realized the need for substantial front end financial aid approximately 1 month after the signing of the contract.

Efforts and negotiations to secure financing from banks, the SBA, and the Department of Labor were to no avail, and finally, 7 months after the execution of the contract eight of the consortium members were peruaded to make noninterest-bearing loans totalling approximately $25,000 to NED Corporation with the expectation of eventual repayment at the end of the contract.

This front-end money combined with the negotiation of a liberal deferred payment schedule to an educational consulting firm, permitted the program to begin.

The 7-month delay occasioned by the disparity between what the industrialists believed was possible and what was ultimately required in getting the program started, constituted irretrievable loss of more than 25 percent of the 2-year contract timetable and a significant portion of potential per trainee, per day, reimbursement. In the absence of prejob training and full counseling and other support services, only six of the 65 trainees placed on training posi tions during this period have been retained.

Most of the trainees starting on the jobs before full staff and services were funded in April 1969, left within the first month.

Because of the delay, and the program's total dependence upon per trainee, per diem MA-3 payments from Government, there has been constant pressure to get trainees on the job first and into the job-related training classes later.

Even the Department of Labor counseled this approach. As a result job-related educational training assumed a secondary role from the outset and as a consequence, numerous trainees have terminated the program before ever receiving the opportunity to participate in the job related education classes.

B. THE JOB-RELATED EDUCATION COMPONENT IS NOT DESIGNED OR
FINANCED IN SUCH A WAY AS TO ACHIEVE ITS PURPOSE

Everything I am saying today relates primarily to the consortium arrangement which is our experience. We are just beginning to have experience with the direct single company contracts.

So most of these comments should be taken in that light.

From the inception of the job-related program, the job-related education program, which consisted primarily of teaching English to Spanish-speaking unemployed, was minimized and subordinated to other interests and needs.

The deferred payment schedule required companies to pay from $400 to $700 per trainee in nonproductive wages over a period of 7 to 10 weeks with a pro rata reimbursement of an average of $160 to $220 for the same period, and payable some 60 days later.

Certainly this seemingly uneconomical exchange was a predominant factor in company resistance to JRE. Second, immediate company job needs often required trainees to start full time on the job with the oft stated promise that JRE could commence in a short time after the company crisis subsided.

Third, there was a prevalent company attitude that JRE was not required for adequate job performance, which was undoubtedly true given the low skill nature of many of the jobs.

Compounding the problem was the lack of commitment to JRE by the Department of Labor. Specific written requests were made to the Department of Labor for a clear statement of the minimum JRE required under the contract.

No written answer has been received to date.

However, informally and orally, by a number of Department of Labor staff, it has been stated that the amount of training required was that which was necessary to prepare trainees for adequate job performance, which as previously stated, was usually minimal.

With this interpretation from the Department of Labor, NED Corp. ability to promote JRE was substantially undermined.

As a consequence some 340 of a total of 470 disadvantaged persons hired as MA-3 trainees have already terminated, all but 70 of them without ever having been exposed to the spoken English or basic education that MA-3 program was to have offered them.

Of 130 trainees currently on the program rolls, at least 20 who do not speak English have not yet been released for the JRE program. I would conclude from these statistics that the Government has not received an appropriate return on its money. I would suggest first that JRE be required to be initiated within the first week after the trainee is hired by the company.

Second, JRE should be required to overcome the employability handicap or handicaps of the trainee, and just adequate job performance.

Last, if there is a serious concern for the job related education component, it would seem desirable to pay for those costs as they are incurred.

In this way, the pressures to minimize this component would be

alleviated.

40-963 0-70-pt. 4- -9

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