They don't stay at the hospital for 3 years. They stay just as long as the medical staff feels it was necessary to withdraw them and rehabilitate them and make them a safe risk to put back outside.

But as we have heard this morning and this afternoon, the biggest and the weakest point of all our programs is our aftercare and followup. We don't have any. We have a small amount as far as the hospital is concerned, but we in the police department have picked the kids going up there with the "works" right on their person, going to check in the rehabilitation stations, so it isn't-I mean ambulatory patients are a very poor risk.

Mr. MITLER. Could you just tell us, there is a project you are working on right now in New York City?

Mr. TERRANOVA. New York State.

Mr. MITLER. New York State, rather.

Mr. TERRANOVA. The government, there is a New York State Joint Legislative Committee of 15 members of the State that have been appointed, of which I am on the committee, to investigate the condition of narcotics in the State of New York, sir.

Mr. MITLER. Just one other point. When I was testifying I said something about occasional, in some place

Chairman KEFAUVER. Let's see. What is the committee doing? When are you going to make the report?

Mr. TERRANOVA. We have only just started, sir. We will make an interim report in March and continue from there.

Chairman KEFAUVER. Then you are going to investigate the conditions and make legislative recommendations; is that the idea?

Mr. TERRANOVA. Yes, sir; anything that we feel can come out of it, to change our legislature a bit, make some recommendations probably for some hospitals.

Chairman KEFAUVER. You said there was no followup provision in New York. Of course, you have this

Mr. TERRANOVA. This hospital was one, Metropolitan Hospital, where they go to but, from my point of view, it isn't successful as far as the followup is concerned.

As expressed we picked up at least in one particular case, another too, this one boy going in there had an eye dropper with a needle and a spoon on his person; he was going in to report and talk to the person in charge of the particular clinic, and we questioned him, asking him why he at least didn't frisk him.

He said, if they did, that none of them would ever come back in again, which would be true, I suppose.

Of course, we had no hesitancy as police officers to give the boy a quick frisk and we found the "works," as it is known, on his person. We had one case where a JFA children's court called us in to talk to a youngster who had been smoking marihuana, and the boy had explained the sensations, and there was no question in our mind that he was smoking marihuana.

He said he had been smoking marihuana for a year, and that at this time he was 8 years old. And he said he belonged to a group in the neighborhood where he came from where there were the "seniors," the "juniors," and the "midgets," the three gangs.

The Midgets bought from the Juniors, the Juniors bought from the Seniors.

"Where do you get your money to pay for the narcotics or the marijuana?"

And he said, "Well, I ain't going to tell you." He was very willing to tell us who he bought it- purchased the marijuana from. He said there was a 16-year-old boy in the neighborhood and we had been able to pick the boy up in a couple of hours and we found he had been taking narcotics by injections and he was one of a group that met in a hallway, in a house, in the neighborhood and used it as a shooting gallery.

They range from the age of 12 to 18, the oldest one being the first year of college and the youngest one grammar schools. Two boys from parochial school-and I would like to say right now that all of the group there were no Negroes or Puerto Ricans among them. They were Irish and Italian and Jewish, this particular neighborhood.

Mr. MITLER. That is all.

Chairman KEFAUVER. Inspector, what kind of followup do you think would be useful?

Mr. TERRANOVA. I think if when they come out of these hospitals if we have regional hospitals, if we can't afford to have our own hospital in each State, or the Government can't afford to have them around them, perhaps the Government and the State could get around and have a regional hospital.

I don't think this is originally too much. Part is and part is not. I think then we should carry the load pro rata as to the amount of addicts that we probably are putting into these particular hospitals. We should not turn them loose after four and a half months, because the individual himself, if he is willing, is going back to the same environment.

We have gone all through that, but if they could be put into some intermediate hospital such as that where he could be or the boys perhaps to some camp. We had camps here some years back, if you will remember, for these youngsters out of work; perhaps we could invoke some of them again, get them out in the open.

But we must always remember that the individual himself must be willing to do this. We can't force him to do it, because 95 percent of any so-called cure is the individual wanting to stay away from it.

If we sit here and try to legislate, we tell what doctors should do but if they don't want to do it themselves there is nothing, Mr. Senator, you or I or anyone else or all committees in the world can do anything about it.

Senator KEFAUVER. You have given one or two instances of where you didn't think the treatment at the Riverside Hospital or the followup there was doing much good. You wouldn't mean to intimate that that is true of all cases?

Mr. TERRANOVA. Well, I remember Dr. Gamso over at the hospital admitting that 50 percent of his patients came back to him and when he was asked what about the other, he said he didn't know.

Fifty percent were recidivists coming back to the hospital. We have had cases where the drug was smuggled in on a weekend pass; trying to build the children back up again the drug was smuggled in through their person in the apertures of their body.

Chairman KEFAUVER. But haven't they changed and improved this system recently?

Mr. TERRANOVA. They are, of course, going along and increasing it at all times. That is true.

Chairman KEFAUVER. But they can't give followup for all of the addicts in New York City, can they?

Mr. TERRANOVA. No; I am afraid not.

Chairman KEFAUVER. Not just one hospital?

Mr. TERRANOVA. This one hospital, no.

Chairman KEFAUVER. Mr. Mitler says they can only handle 121only under 21?

Mr. TERRANOVA. Only under 21, and I think they have about 130 in the hospital right now, something like that.

Chairman KEFAUVER. How many reported addictions are there of crimes committed?

I mean, how many addicts did you say there were in New York City at the present time?

Mr. TERRANOVA. 14,196 as of April of this year, sir. There is more than that right now. This is the known addicts that come to the attention of the medical profession.

Chairman KEFAUVER. You agree with these other witnesses there is really no way of knowing how many addictions there are?

Mr. TERRANOVA. That is correct, sir, no way of knowing. We should have registration so that at least we will have a fairly good idea as to the amount of addiction we do have so we know how to cope with it. Right now we don't know what we have got.

Chairman KEFAUVER. Well, we thank you very much, Chief.
Mr. TERRANOVA. Thank you, sir.

Chairman KEFAUVER. And appreciate your contribution.

Mr. MITLER. Lieutenant Driscoll, this is more to thank you and Inspector Driscoll who both came in to cooperate with us in this hearing. Perhaps you want to come with the lieutenant.

Chairman KEFAUVER. Come around, Inspector Driscoll.

First, are you fellows brothers or what?

Inspector DRISCOLL. No, sir; we are no relation at all.

Chairman KEFAUVER. If we are not able to get the full story

Inspector DRISCOLL. I am Inspector Driscoll.

Chairman KEFAUVER. And you are Lieutenant Driscoll?
Lieutenant DRISCOLL. Yes, sir.

STATEMENTS OF INSPECTOR JOHN F. DRISCOLL, DETECTIVE DIVISION, AND LT. GLASGOW DRISCOLL, PHILADELPHIA POLICE DEPARTMENT

Inspector DRISCOLL. Senator, Lieutenant Driscoll is most familiar with the situation. I came down here as a representative, I am second in command of the detective division.

Lieutenant Driscoll is charged with the responsibility and enforcement of the narcotics laws and he has had wide experience. And I think he can answer every question regarding the Philadelphia situation.

Chairman KEFAUVER. That is showing good confidence in your lieutenant, Inspector Driscoll.

Inspector DRISCOLL. Yes, sir.

Mr. MITLER. Lieutenant, you are the head of the narcotics squad in Philadelphia?

Lieutenant DRISCOLL. Yes, sir.

Mr. MITLER. I am going to ask you 1 or 2 questions. Can you tell us about the technique of mass raids very briefly that you have instituted in Philadelphia?

Lieutenant DRISCOLL. Yes, sir. Starting in 1954 we had a major narcotic problem in Philadelphia and at that time the present commissioner of police obtained funds for us to purchase narcotic drugs from pushers and we went to the police academy and picked out both young men and women and trained them and placed them in the field where narcotic drugs would be sold. Since 1953 there have been five mass raids usually an average of 100 to 125 persons being arrested for the sale of narcotic drugs. On one occasion we had a young nurse who had just graduated from one of our local hospitals. We took her, gave her a shopping bag and put 2 or 3 dresses in it and named her shopping bag Peg and we put her down in one of the neighborhoods where drugs were being sold and she posed as a shoplifter who was stealing dresses and so forth by shoplifting and selling them for drugs.

Over a period of 5 months that 1 young lady made 70 purchases of narcotic drugs from drug pushers. Through that technique of using young policemen and women we have reduced a major problem to an absolute minimum in Philadelphia at the present time.

Mr. MITLER. About those under 21, what was the situation and what is the situation very briefly, Lieutenant, as to the scope of drug addiction in those age groups?

Lieutenant DRISCOLL. In the past 4 years there have been only 5 persons arrested under the age of 18 years and each of those cases the child was smoking marihuana.

Each of those five cases for some reason or other had stopped attending school. The age between 18 and 21 the average is about 5 percent of the number of arrests run between the ages of 18 and 21. The usual age area is from 21 to 27.

Mr. MITLER. What is your view of the practicality of Dr. Howe's clinical plan? Do you think it is practical or impractical?

Lieutenant DRISCOLL. I don't approve of a clinic plan because in most cases a drug addict never gets enough of narcotics. If it was made that easy for him to get his drugs it would only increase his habit instead of tending to decrease it. If he would be treated on the ambulatory plan where he would be given 20 doses of drugs to take each day himself there is a danger of his giving those drugs to a person that has never used drugs. I don't approve of the clinic plan of treatment.

Mr. MITLER. Thank you very much.

Chairman KEFAUVER. Lieutenant Driscoll, by ambulatory plan you seem to speak about that as if the patient carries the drugs around himself.

Lieutenant DRISCOLL. Yes, sir.

Chairman KEFAUVER. That is not what we are talking about. We are talking about them reporting to the clinic for treatment.

Lieutenant DRISCOLL. Some of the clinics that is the way they treat the patient. I would approve of an oldtime drug addict if he has

passed the stage of all redemption and we find out he is going to be a drug addict as long as he lives, if he would go to a clinic and obtain the drugs he needs at the clinic and no drugs be given to him to be taken away from the clinic, I would approve of treatment for him. But for the young addict I would not approve of clinic treatment for him. In the next session of the Pennsylvania legislature a bill is going to be introduced suggesting a farm hospital where the drug addict instead of being sent to prison where he mingles with all types of criminals would be committed to this farm hospital for a period of 1 year. During that time he would receive psychiatric treatment from the doctors in the hospital.

He would be allowed to work at farming to rebuild himself physically and we hope at the same time that we could set up an employment agency by the State where they could encourage employers to take a chance on these young people that have made a mistake by becoming drug addicts. A lot of employers today seem to think that a person who uses drugs is contagious with leprosy or something. They are afraid to take a chance on them.

We in the police department have obtained jobs for several drug addicts and in no case have they let us down. They have stayed away from drugs and they are working and we found by applying the human touch to these people that many of them can be rehabilitated.

Chairman KEFAUVER. Do you think by having someone that will stay in touch with them, show interest, either a police officer, psychiatrist, or psychologist or someone to counsel them to help them find employment, after they have been released from the farm or the institution that that would be a good help?

Lieutenant DRISCOLL. Yes, sir. That would help. They want to be made to feel that they belong as a member in society, a useful member and if they are made to feel that way, I am sure that most of the young addicts can be rehabilitated and take their place in society as a successful useful citizen.

Chairman KEFAUVER. Have you substantially reduced the amount of addiction or the number of crimes by addicts in Philadelphia during your program?

Lieutenant DRISCOLL. Yes, sir. During 1955 Commissioner of Police Thomas J. Gibbons announced figures that crime was reduced 28 percent and he attributed it mostly to those mass narcotic raids of getting the drug pushers off the street. The number of total arrests for sale, possession, and use in 1956 will be about half the total of the arrests made in 1953, 1954, and 1955. So we feel our program of mass arrests is beginning to pay off.

Chairman KEFAUVER. How many people have you added to the narcotics squad to accomplish this?

Lieutenant DRISCOLL. In 1952 there were only six members in the narcotic squad. At the present time there are 35 members in the narcotic unit.

Chairman KEFAUVER. So that backing up the enforcement division is one of the good things to do in a city?

Lieutenant DRISCOLL. Yes, sir. I think that Mr. Neeb who testified this morning that 50 percent of our problem is to eliminate the pusher of drugs and I firmly believe in that.