Mr. MITLER. At Lexington there were really three kinds of patients at the time you went there?

"Mr. TAYLOR." Yes, sir.

Mr. MITLER. The volunteers

"Mr. TAYLOR." Yes, sir.

Mr. MITLER. You go ahead and tell us the other kinds there were. "Mr. TAYLOR." Voluntary patients, prisoners or ones sent there by court, and probationers.

Mr. MITLER. How long did you remain at Lexington?

"Mr. TAYLOR." One hundred and thirty-five days.

Mr. MITLER. Now, while you were at Lexington, what did you do, what was the program?

"Mr. TAYLOR." I was withdrawn and put to work on a farm. Mr. MITLER. Did you have any group therapy at that time? "Mr. TAYLOR." Yes, sir. Group therapy, as such, conducted by doctors; and group therapy in AA.

Mr. MITLER. I know you are extremely interested in AA, and we will come to that.

Could you tell us what the group therapy consisted of at Lexington? "Mr. TAYLOR." It was headed by a psychologist. There were different groups in the hospital. The one I attended was headed by a psychologist, and we discussed freely personal problems.

Mr. MITLER. Did you feel that was some help, was of some value to you?

"Mr. TAYLOR." No, sir.

Mr. MITLER. Why not?

"Mr. TAYLOR." Well, I felt that group therapy, and I feel it is helpful, but I think the nature of my disease requires the help of a higher power, not found in group therapy.

Mr. MITLER. I see. In any event, you checked out of the hospital with or against medical advice?

"Mr. TAYLOR." I checked out with medical advice at that time. Mr. MITLER. I see.

Now, when you were at Lexington, did you observe how long the volunteers stayed? Did they stay long enough for them to really do an effective job, or did they leave too soon?

"Mr. TAYLOR." Generally leave too soon.

Mr. MITLER. When you left, what happened? Did you relapse and use drugs again?

"Mr. TAYLOR." Yes, sir.

Mr. MITLER. Then what finally happened?

"Mr. TAYLOR." I went back again as a volunteer, and was withdrawn; I checked out against medical advice after 49 days, went back to AA, and I have been well since then.

Mr. MITLER. Now we will get to the AA. How long was it, how long a period elapsed, after you came out the first time, before you started to use drugs again?

"Mr. TAYLOR." Maybe 2 or 3 months.

Mr. MITLER. I see.

Now, at Lexington, are there some young people there as well as adults?

"Mr. TAYLOR." A few; yes, sir.

Mr. MITLER. Are there also Federal prisoners and volunteers? "Mr. TAYLOR." Yes, sir.

Mr. MITLER. What is your feeling about the volunteers and the prisoners being together?

"Mr. TAYLOR." I don't feel that it is harmful.

Mr. MITLER. After you came out, you say you found a great deal of help in AA. I know that that is-you have done a good deal of work in the District of Columbia helping others.

Would you tell us what their program was and how it helped you? "Mr. TAYLOR." Their program was to teach me that I had a disease. Mr. MITLER. What is the AA, to begin with?

"Mr. TAYLOR." AA is Alcoholics Anonymous.

Mr. MITLER. Yes.

"Mr. TAYLOR." They taught me that I had a disease that was incurable, that I could find that it would be arrested if I refrained from the use of drugs, and I generally bettered my life and took an inventory of myself, finally trying to help others.

Mr. MITLER. And you found that you have been able to be permanently removed from the use of drugs as a result of the help you got at Lexington plus the AA?

"Mr. TAYLOR." Yes, sir.

Mr. MITLER. And you have gone down to the Lorton Reformatory and tried to develop a program there, too?

"Mr. TAYLOR." Yes, sir.

Mr. MITLER. What is the status now of the work that you are doing on a volunteer basis?

"Mr. TAYLOR." The status is that the group we started, similar to AA, called Narcotics Anonymous, was not successful in the way that we wished. Numerically speaking, we have few recoveries. But that it was gratifying and is worth my time, and the others that are with me, to continue on our own.

It is a long way down there, and it is a long trip.

Mr. MITLER. You have asked-you wanted to say something about the history of AA. Could you do it very briefly?

"Mr. TAYLOR." Yes, sir.

We are concerned about the treatment of other individuals like myself. I, with others, have found a release from the compulsion to use drugs from the life I was in, through the Alcoholics Anonymous program.

I suggest to anyone who is sincerely interested, to study the history of Alcoholics Anonymous as described in the Alcoholics Anonymous book, because the pattern is similar, is parallel.

As the gentleman mentioned earlier, alcoholism was once considered a hopeless disease, a person was a social outcast; and today more than 200,000 alcoholics who have recovered through AA are respected, and I think we can find our answer there.

Mr. MITLER. Now, of the people that you dealt with at Lorton, were most of those sellers, or what is the average status of the drug case? "Mr. TAYLOR." The status of the average drug case are ones that were users, convicted through entrapment, generally, of transfer of narcotics, and classified and sentenced as peddlers.

Mr. MITLER. Turning back to just one or two other questions about Lexington, what is the ordinary topic of discussion at Lexington?

"Mr. TAYLOR." Dope.

Mr. MITLER. Well, of course, people with that kind of problem are bound to discuss it; is that correct?

"Mr. TAYLOR." Yes, sir.

Mr. MITLER. And when you were there, was there an effort being made to separate the young from the old people?

"Mr. TAYLOR." Yes, sir; there was an effort began at that time. Mr. MITLER. What do you think the impact was of the 18- and 19year-olds being in contact with the veteran Federal drug prisoners?

"Mr. TAYLOR." I think that the younger fellows who are there for treatment for drug addiction, most of the young fellows were just as ornery as the old ones; and in view of the fact that there are so few down there, I don't think that segregation is practical.

Mr. MITLER. I see.

At the present time, you are no longer involved in the use of drugs, but you are trying to help other people.

"Mr. TAYLOR." Yes, sir.

Mr. MITLER. In other words, you have your own kind of followthrough or aftercare program; you have done it on a voluntary basis. "Mr. TAYLOR." Yes, sir.

Mr. MITLER. Have you gone down to meet people who are about to leave, to help them?

"Mr. TAYLOR." Yes, sir.

Mr. MITLER. Just tell us about that.

"Mr. TAYLOR." Well, generally, anyone being released from a hospital or penitentiary is skeptical, for all of the reasons we know. I found it hard for some fellows to get interested in AA, because it is supposed to be for alcoholics. I found that the biggest problem is misunderstanding and lack of acceptance, lack of understanding from lawmakers and doctors and ones that could help.

Mr. MITLER. I have no further questions.

Chairman KEFAUVER. "Mr. Taylor," when you first got out of Lexington after a period of time, you went back to narcotics. How did you happen to do it? Did you go to your old environments, or did you

"Mr. TAYLOR." I imagine it had something to do with it, sir. I had not fully resigned yet to leave it alone when I came out the first time. Chairman KEFAUVER. Well, if you had some followup counsel and help, and someone to talk with and give you therapy, do you think that would have helped you?

"Mr. TAYLOR." I had access to that, Senator, in AA, but I just failed to accept it. It was there, but I didn't want it at the time.

Chairman KEFAUVER. And would you mind telling us how long you have been in Alcoholics Anonymous?

"Mr. TAYLOR." It has been about 5 years, sir, since my last release from Lexington.

Chairman KEFAUVER. And for 5 years you have been able to control it yourself?

"Mr. TAYLOR." I haven't used any drugs in 5 years; yes, sir.

Chairman KEFAUVER. This help that you give by going down to Lorton on your own, and talking with patients who are released, you pay your own expenses, you do it on your own?

"Mr. TAYLOR." Well, there is not a lot of expense involved, sir, but it is on my own.

Chairman KEFAUVER. That is a very commendable work, to me.

I am glad that you found relief in treatment, and that you have been able to restore your life. You certainly have given a good account of the work of AA.

"Mr. TAYLOR." Thank you.

Chairman KEFAUVER. Anything else?

Mr. MITLER. No, Senator.

Thank you very much for coming.

Chairman KEFAUVER. Who is our next witness?

Mr. MITLER. This gentleman, I am using the name of "Joe Dixon," and

Chairman KEFAUVER. "Mr. Dixon," you swear the testimony you give will be the whole truth, so help you God?

"Mr. DIXON." I do.

Mr. MITLER. Thank you.

Chairman KEFAUVER. All right, Mr. Mitler.

TESTIMONY OF "JOE DIXON" (A FICITIOUS NAME SUPPLIED BY THE SUBCOMMITTEE)

Mr. MITLER. Would you testify right into the mike.

You come from Philadelphia.

"Mr. DIXON." Yes, sir.

Mr. MITLER. And you have come down here to cooperate and explain exactly how you were able to be helped with the drug habit; is that correct?

Chairman KEFAUVER. How old are you, "Mr. Dixon"?

"Mr. DIXON." Twenty-five.

Chairman KEFAUVER. "Mr. Taylor," how old are you?

"Mr. TAYLOR." Twenty-nine.

Mr. MITLER. How old were you when you first came in contact with heroin or any kind of narcotics?

"Mr. DIXON." Seventeen.

Mr. MITLER. Could you tell us briefly how that came about?

"Mr. DIXON." Well, a group of fellows I was hanging around with at the time, all the same

Chairman KEFAUVER. Pull the microphone closer.

"Mr. DIXON." We were interested in music at the time.

Mr. MITLER. And you were in Philadelphia?

"Mr. DIXON." In Philadelphia. We started smoking marihuana. Mr. MITLER. And that was in the group that you were with?

"Mr. DIXON." Yes.

Mr. MITLER. Did there come a time when you went to Atlantic City during the summer?

"Mr. DIXON." Well, we went to Atlantic City during the summer, and I took my first shot of heroin.

Mr. MITLER. What was it that brought that about?

Chairman KEFAUVER. How old were you then?

"Mr. DIXON." I was just turning 18.

Mr. MITLER. How did that come about in Atlantic City?

"Mr. DIXON." A friend of mine came up and said something better than marihuana, get a better kick out of it, and I went and tried it. Mr. MITLER. And that was heroin?

"Mr. DIXON." Yes, sir.

Mr. MITLER. Did there come a time during the summer when some pusher came down there and released

"Mr. DIXON." This occurred later.

Mr. MITLER. Would you tell us about that?

"Mr. DIXON." It was in the fall of the year when we went back to Philadelphia. A big marihuana pusher at the time came to us and said-we were getting it from-the syndicate had said that he couldn't get any more marihuana until he got rid of a certain amount of heroin, and he said he would sell it to us for a dollar a capsule at the time. And we raised a hundred dollars, and we bought a hundred capsules. Mr. MITLER. And, of course, you continued to develop the habit then.

Mr. MITLER. How soon was it or how long was it before you came into conflict with the authorities and were arrested?

"Mr. DIXON." It was around a year later, I was arrested for the first time.

Mr. MITLER. Were you using narcotics during that period of time? "Mr. DIXON." Yes, sir.

Mr. MITLER. What was your occupation then?

"Mr. DIXON." I worked at music, and I also was a salesman.

Chairman KEFAUVER. What did you get arrested for, would you mind telling us?

"Mr. DIXON." Use of narcotics. At the time, they had an internal possession law in Philadelphia.

Mr. MITLER. What sentence did you receive?

"Mr. DIXON." I received a year's probation.

Mr. MITLER. Did you resume the use of narcotics while you were on probation?

"Mr. DIXON." Yes, sir.

Mr. MITLER. And you came to New York to live?

"Mr. DIXON." I moved to New York, and I started almost immediately.

Mr. MITLER. In other words, you hadn't received any kind of guidance or treatment at that time?

"Mr. DIXON." No.

Mr. MITLER. You just went right back to the habit.

Then what happened in New York?

"Mr. DIXON." In New York, I was arrested again.

Mr. MITLER. And what was the disposition of that case?

"Mr. DIXON." It was discharged; lack of evidence.

Chairman KEFAUVER. Was that a charge of possessing narcotics?

"Mr. DIXON." Possession, yes. It was a legal technicality. That was the cause of the discharge.

Mr. MITLER. At this point, were you heavily addicted by now? "Mr. DIXON." Yes.

Mr. MITLER. Did you go back to Philadelphia?

"Mr. DIXON." Yes, I did.

Mr. MITLER. Did there come a time when, on your own initiative, you decided you wanted to try to help yourself, and you went to some private treatment center in Philadelphia?