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Mr. NEEB. Quantity and quality. The examination of this heroin indicates that it is about as pure as you can produce it, about 87 percent pure. Actually, we have had cases in California where some addict has gotten some Chinese heroin, and one shot will kill them because it is so strong. It is not diluted enough.

The heroin that comes from other sources is always diluted and cut down.

Our committee came to this conclusion, Mr. Chairman: The heroin from Mexico is pure ground; the heroin from the Mediterranean is cut to about 5 percent of strength when it gets to California, because it travels through hands. The heroin from Communist China comes in pure, and we don't think you could have it so pure unless it was sponsored by the Government of Communist China.

As a matter of fact, they have said they were in the business, they used it in the conquest of Thailand. Today they are pushing it into Japan. There is more addiction in Japan today than there is in the United States.

Mr. MITLER. Mr. Neeb, do young people go into Tijuana, across the border, and get narcotics?

Mr. NEEB. That is one of the sad tales of California. We have a tremendously long border with Mexico. It is simple and easy for young persons-here is the modus operandi in California: Four or five people want some heroin or they want some marihuana. So they each put up a few dollars apiece, and somebody borrows a car or they take the family car, and 1 or 2 of them go to Tijuana. They simply go over the border and say, "We are Americans"; they simply come back and say "We are Americans." Very seldom is there any search, and they can buy all the heroin and all the marihuana they want in Mexico.

And the thing that disturbs us out there is this: The Mexican Government apparently does very little, if anything, about these peddlers, and we are sure they know them because our border guards give them money when they inform as to who they sold to.

Mr. MITLER. Could you explain that, Mr. Neeb?

Mr. NEEB. Yes. Our border guards apparently, in an effort to do a good job-and I don't criticize them; I criticize the Mexicans for not clamping down on the peddlers they have a standing offer of $500 of our money to any peddler in Tijuana who will inform and give the license number of a purchaser in Mexico.

Now, that applies to juveniles. I know juvenile cases where it is happening. They get paid for the heroin or the marihuana with American money, and then they get $500 from the border guard for giving the license number.

Mr. MITLER. Mr. Neeb, will you turn now to what the treatment program is, to the State

Chairman KEFAUVER. Let us turn a little more to this problem with Mexico.

We have had some hearings, Senator Langer in El Paso, under Senator Hendrickson in San Diego, about this border problem. At that time there was some recommendation of stopping the boys going back and forth across the border without some written authorization of their parents, and there is a bill filed, Mr. Chumbris reminds me, S. 959. We thought that might be a way of getting at it.

But then we found that brought a great deal of criticism and complaint from our friendly neighbor to the north, the Canadians, where there was no traffic; also a great many other places where there was no traffic, where good, normal relations in going back and forth existed, and we did get so we were never able to work out a bill which would fit the situation to stop this traffic.

I think we did get something which was helpful. Congress authorized a little more money for control, and got some agreements and cooperation from some of the Mexican officials.

But what is the solution to that problem?

Mr. NEEB. We feel there is a solution. It may sound drastic, but actually I think it would be workable, and that would be for us to close the border except as we have borders open and intercourse with other countries. That means by passport and visa. If a person has business in Mexico, they could go just as easily as they could go to Sweden or England or anywhere else. But it is the people without business who are bringing in the narcotics.

Chairman KEFAUVER. Well, that, of course, is a policy of our Government, to encourage vacation exchange in going from country to country, just visiting. Do you think that such a closing of the border, requiring passports, would interfere with vacation visitation?

Mr. NEEB. I think this, Senator: that if we did it for a limited period of time, I think we would find that the use of marihuana in this country would fall off so greatly that the closing would be found to be justified.

Chairman KEFAUVER. In Tijuana, you can buy marihuana anywhere, in the stores, almost.

Mr. NEEB. Well, I don't know about stores, but they have enough peddlers there that the young persons who don't have any contacts, they can just go down there and find it. You don't have to be a big man in the peddling business to be able to buy it over the border. Chairman KEFAUVER. And heroin, too?

Mr. NEEB. Heroin, yes; usually brown heroin. That is the Mexican variety.

Chairman KEFAUVER. And searching kids coming back is not a very adequate way of stopping it?

Mr. NEEB. Well, Senator, the answer is this: The records of that one part show 1,200,000 purchases, and 5 million people, each 12 months. You just can't-the border patrol is too thin, you couldn't possibly do it.

Of course, you would have opposition by the racetrack people and the gambling interests, because they are running races and bookmaking in Tijuana, and thousands of people go, and they say, "We have a right to go to the races."

But I think that helping these young people is more important than letting people go to the races. We honestly feel, Senator, if we could lick the marihuana problem in California, we would lick the narcotic problem, because that is the road that leads to heroin.

Chairman KEFAUVER. I think we all understand that when the thrill of marihuana wears off, they look to heroin or something stronger. Mr. NEEB. That is right.

Chairman KEFAUVER. Well, is this the recommendation of the juvenile commission of which you have been chairman?


Mr. NEEB. No. We didn't come to a unanimity of opinion on that, because, as you pointed out, there are two schools of thought about closing the border. But we certainly did recommend-there is one other recommendation that we made, Senator, that we did agree upon, and that is that the narcotic officers of the State and Federal Government have a right that they do not have now, and that is the right of search and seizure.

On the incoming boats and planes into California, no narcotics officer, however well trained, has a right to search any person or any baggage on those boats or planes. They have to have with them customs officers.

Now, I don't mean to imply they do not cooperate. They do. But without costing the Government 1 more cent, think of the personnel that you could add to the power of the customs officers if you gave this right to State and Federal narcotics officers. It wouldn't cost anything.

Chairman KEFAUVER. I have here, Mr. Neeb, the narcotic addiction report to Attorney General Edmund G. Brown by the Citizens Advisory Committee to the Attorney General, on Crime Prevention, and you as chairman of the southern committee.

This is the book you are speaking about?
Mr. NEEB. Yes, that is the book; correct.

Chairman KEFAUVER. And Dr. Milton Chernin.

Mr. NEEB. Yes.

Chairman KEFAUVER. Yes.

Mr. NEEB. He is the professor of sociology at the University of California at Berkeley.

Chairman KEFAUVER. He is the northern chairman?

Mr. NEEB. Those chairmanships are changed. We are rotating them.

Chairman KEFAUVER. These matters of closing of the border or giving authority to make searches to narcotics agents, have you taken that up with any Federal officials?

Mr. NEEB. No, we have not. We made recommendations, and that is about as far as we could go.

Chairman KEFAUVER. Senator Langer, do you have any questions you wish to ask at this time?

Senator LANGER. No.

Chairman KEFAUVER. All right, proceed, Mr. Mitler.

Mr. MITLER. Mr. Neeb, would you tell us now about the treatment program in the State of California, with special reference to those in the under-21-years-of-age group? What is being done to get at the root of the problem in terms of treatment?

Mr. NEEB. Well, Mr. Mitler, I think California has gone out in front in this regard. We actually have legislation that passed the senate and the assembly in California, which we think will lick the problem of treating the addict.

We felt, after this long investigation into our own State, that you cannot lick the narcotic problem unless you do it in two ways: First, you have to be vigorous in your enforcement, you have to cut off the peddler and the source of supply. But you also have to cure the addict who is on the street, because as long as he is a customer, an addict, a supplier will spring up.

You ask the man in prison, and he will say as long as you have customers you will have peddlers.

So we have this proposal

Chairman KEFAUVER. Wait just a minute, Mr. Neeb.

Mr. Cunningham, would you come up?

Mr. Cunningham is the Deputy Director of the Bureau of Narcotics, a Tennesseean.

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. We have a representative down here to wait for you. If you want me this afternoon, I will be glad to come back. Chairman KEFAUVER. We certainly do appreciate your coming up, Mr. Cunningham.

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Mr. Diordano is here.

Chairman KEFAUVER. Thank you very much for your cooperation, Mr. Cunningham.

Senator LANGER. Mr. Cunningham

Chairman KEFAUVER. Senator Langer wanted to ask you something.


Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Yes, Senator.

Senator LANGER. I was interested in what Mr. Neeb said about having additional people having authority to search.

Have you ever considered that question?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Well, no, Senator; we haven't. I don't think that would be very difficult, as a matter of law, just to give these Federal narcotics agents the same rights as customs agents to search.

Whether they would agree to it or not, I have no way of knowing. It wouldn't be a very difficult law to pass.

Senator LANGER. It would be a simple matter to introduce a billMr. CUNNINGHAM. That is right.

Senator LANGER (continuing). Giving you this authority.

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. That is right.

Senator LANGER. Well, in your reports have you ever asked for that authority?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. No, sir; we have not.

Chairman KEFAUVER. I think it would be a different problem giving State narcotic agents authority.

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I would think so.

Chairman KEFAUVER. But your agents would be a simple matter, would it not?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Back in the early days, I had a commission in the customs, and I still have it. I can search boats, planes, or anything else, but I don't know of many narcotics agents that have that. I think I had one in the early twenties, and I still have it.

But it might not necessitate a law. It might be done through the Treasury Department, that is, the Commissioner of Customs.

Chairman KEFAUVER. Mr. Cunningham, would you be so good as to research or have it researched, if possible we would like to have it today, whether you do have law or authority, what you need to have authority, so we could include in our report.

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Right. I am sure there is no statutory authority to first engage in searches, which is similar to what the customs do.

But I think it could be done administratively. I may be wrong about it, but I think those powers could be extended administratively, to Federal narcotics agents. I am not saying about the State narcotics agents, Mr. Chairman.

Chairman KEFAUVER. Anything else on that, Senator Langer?
Senator LANGER. Yes.

Take, for example, in wheat inspection, the Federal Government can authorize a State official

Chairman KEFAUVER. Why don't you sit down, Mr. Cunningham. Sit down with Mr. Neeb.

Senator LANGER. They can authorize a gentleman working for the State, for example, to do the inspecting. Why couldn't the Federal Government deputize the State agents here?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Well, that would be very beneficial on the Texas and Mexican border.

Senator LANGER. I do not see why it couldn't be done.

Do you have any reason you see why it could not be done?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. I know of no reason why it could not be done. Senator LANGER. Mr. Neeb?

Mr. NEEB. You are speaking to me, Senator?

Senator LANGER. Yes.

Mr. NEEB. We have given it a lot of consideration, and we gave it consideration in 1955, and we have talked with a lot of narcotics agents on the coast. I don't know what Mr. Anslinger thinks about it. We talked to him about it, and

Senator LANGER. How many State agents are there?

Mr. NEEB. You mean in California?

Senator LANGER. In California.

Mr. NEEB. I can't give you the exact number, but we have in the department in California about 30 agents.

Chairman KEFAUVER. You mean the California department?

Mr. NEEB. Yes. We have our own narcotic agency on the State level, and we have on the county level and police departments, also. Chairman KEFAUVER. And there is very close cooperation, I know, between the California narcotics agents and the Federal agents.

Mr. NEEB. Yes, there is no problem of cooperation. But there are times we found when there were boats coming in through the Golden Gate when, for one reason or another, you could not find more than 3,3 customs agents, to take care of the matter.

It is not their fault. They just don't have enough.

Chairman KEFAUVER. Mr. Cunningham, can you also give us some information as to the research and what the status is, authorizing this to be done; that is, to give the State agents authority to be deputized by the Federal Government to assist in searches?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. Consistent with the authority that the customs agent has, do I understand you to mean that?

Chairman KEFAUVER. Yes, sir.

Senator LANGER. Your agents are all men, are they, or have you some women agents?

Mr. CUNNINGHAM. We have all men.

Chairman KEFAUVER. How about yourself, Mr. Neeb?

Mr. NEEB. I don't think we have any women agents. I think they are all men. I don't know of any personally.

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