York. Under the present title VI that means the State health commissioner. I think the point might be a bit clarified if I were to point out that the language in the present pending bill is very much broader and is much more specific than the present title VI. Title VI at the present time uses only the term "public-health work." Dr. Greenburg this morning has gone to some length to prove that the work that he is doing is not public work but an activity of the Department of Labor, and therefore industrial hygiene. From a practical point of view, a State health commissioner is confronted with the relative need; after all, the Governor determines, I should assume, the purposes for which the Federal funds are to be spent, and in New York State the important task of administering to the health of school children is under the department of education. I think it is likely the department of education also wished to have some of these rather limited moneys now being made available under the Social Security Act. Similarly, there is a department of mental hygiene, and none of us denies the great importance of mental disease, and yet none of the present limited funds has been spent for that purpose. Under the language of the pending bill mental hygiene and industrial hygiene are particularly mentioned as an object.

Senator ELLENDER. That is why I was stating to Dr. Greenburg here that I do not see how he could escape from obtaining money under this bill as it is presently drafted. Do you?

Dr. PARRAN. I agree with your statement.
Senator MURRAY. Proceed, Doctor.

Dr. GREENBURG. Some people will tell you that one of the great defects in doing industrial hygiene work in the Labor Department is the fact that you do not get cooperation of industries and other groups. In the first place, I would like clearly to state for the record that we get complete cooperation from labor, employers, and industry.

The second thing we find is that we get a tremendous amount of cooperation from insurance companies. They have to deal with compensation cases, and they come in to consult with us about the origin of some of these cases and how they may be prevented; and we get finally an enormous amount of cooperation from labor unions, and we have dealings with most of them.

I should like to read you, in this connection, a statement prepared at one of the meetings of the New York State Federation of Labor by the Pressmen's Union and sent to the Governor of the State of New York. They speak about an investigation disclosing 138 cases of poisoning, and part of the resolution which they adopted reads as follows:

Whereas there are no existing laws in the State of New York prohibiting the use of benzol as a solvent in rotogravure printing inks; and

Whereas the prompt action of the State department of labor in discovering this health hazard and in getting the employer to discontinue its use until safe methods can be found to resume its use has no doubt been responsible for saving the lives and preserving the health of many members of the printing trades; and Whereas the whole-hearted cooperation rendered by the State department of labor in this situation is but testimony to its great work in behalf of labor and deserves the united praise of the printing trades of New York State: Therefore be it

Resolved, That this Forty-second Annual Convention of the New York State Allied Printing Trades Council, convening at Buffalo, N. Y., on July 25, 1938, go on record, in recognition of the efficiency of the State department of labor for its timely action and inquiries, which resulted in the discontinuance of the use of

this poisonous material and in providing the means and the facilities for expert medical examinations and treatment of the unfortunate victims of this industrial hazard, and that we commend the excellent public service in that connection of Industrial Commissioner Andrews

And so forth.

That is from the New York Pressmen's Union.

Finally, I should like to read another resolution. Some people will tell you that industrial health workers in the labor department do not the cooperation of the medical profession; and if I may have the privilege at this time, I will state the substance of it and file the resolution. I will just read one clause, if I may.

get

Senator MURRAY. You may submit the resolution. (The same is as follows:)

RESOLUTION URGING CONTINUED SUPPORT FOR PREVENTIVE HEALTH PROTECTION ACTIVITIES IN THE STATE OF NEW YORK

Whereas many workers in industry are exposed to conditions conducive to occupational injuries and occupational disease; and

Whereas the workers of New York State are entitled to protection against such conditions in order that their health may be preserved at all times; and

Whereas local communities do not possess facilities for the conduct of such work; and

Whereas the only health and safety protection in New York State is lodged in the State department of labor, division of industrial hygiene; and Whereas this unit of the State government has performed most commendable work and has contributed greatly to the protection of workers against accidents, silicosis, and occupational poisoning; and

Whereas the physicians of the State of New York feel these efforts are deserving of the full support of the State of New York: Therefore be it

Resolved, That the Medical Society of the State of New York, through its house of delegates, goes on record in favor of the continuation of these preventative health measures on behalf of the employed population of the State of New York, and for the full support of these preventative measures; and be it further

Resolved, That this action by the house of delegates be forwarded to the appropriate State governmental authorities.

Passed unanimously, April 25, 1939.

Senator MURRAY. Do you wish to propose a formal amendment, Doctor, on this point?

Dr. GREENBURG. I have not prepared any such amendment, Senator. Finally, in closing, I should like to summarize by saying that the facts which I have outlined to some extent, at any rate, justify the labor department in expecting money for aid with this problem which we consider so important. We believe that the Federal Government does not intend to interfere with the functional arrangement of the State set-up. We do not believe that the Federal Government intends to make the State commissioner of labor appeal to the State commissioner of health for funds, nor de we think that it is exactly reasonable, and we believe that the present Wagner bill should be amended so as to make provision so that labor departments throughout the United States can obtain money if they are prepared to do any conscientious preventive work in this field."

Section 603 of the proposed Wagner Act, S. 1620, devoted to the approval of State plans, reads as follows (pp. 18 and 19):

SEC. 603a. A State plan to effectuate the purposes of this title shall,

(3) Provide for the administration of the plan by the State health agency or for the supervision by the State health agency of any part of the plan administered by another State agency or by a political subdivision of the State.

It is apparent from paragraph 3 above that in order for the State department of labor to receive Federal aid for industrial hygiene work under this act, the supervision of any such industrial hygiene world would have to be provided by the State health agency.

Supervision may be defined as "the action or function of supervising, oversight, superintendence." In other words, according to the terms of paragraph (3), the State commissioner of labor would be required to yield "oversight" and "superintendence" of such industrial hygiene work paid for by Federal funds in the State of New York, to the State department of health. It is hardly necessary to point out that this would not be agreeable to the State industrial commissioner nor would it be legally possible for, by law, in the State of New York the State industrial commissioner is charged with this superintendence and cannot relinquish it at will.

It must be clear to anyone viewing these facts that S. 1620, proposed by Senator Wagner, would fail to advance the cause of industrial health in the State of New York.

STATEMENT OF JOHN M. FALASZ, REPRESENTING THE DIRECTOR OF LABOR OF THE STATE OF ILLINOIS

Mr. FALASZ. I should like to have the record show that I am appearing here instead of Mr. Martin P. Durkin, director of labor of the State of Illinois.

Now, Mr. Chairman and Senators, it so happened that I came in here this morning with Dr. Greenburg, having met him at the Department of Labor Building, although I was scheduled to appear before this committee this afternoon, and it is fortunate that I came in inasmuch as I will not take as much time as I anticipated, for Dr. Greenburg has covered most of the points which I had in mind and which I intended to bring out before this committee.

The set-up in our labor department is very much similar to that at New York. We have an industrial hygiene commission which is a unit of the Division of Factory Inspection, and the Division of Factory Inspection is a unit of the Department of Labor. The functions of the Industrial Hygiene Division of Illinois are very much similar to New York, and I shall not go into them except to say that the main purpose is for the prevention of occupational diseases.

But I wish to bring out this point to this committee. In Illinois the division of factory inspection is particularly empowered by the legislature of the State to enforce all safety methods pertaining to the health and safety of workers in industry. There is no other agency in the State with the exception perhaps of some municipalities who may enact their own city codes, but as far as the State at large is concerned, the division of factory inspection is empowered to enforce all health and safety legislation. Consequently, the Division of Industrial Hygiene functions and coordinates and cooperates with the Division of Factory Inspection.

Now, I might call to the attention of this committee that the Public Health Service of Illinois because of allocation of funds committed

by the United States Public Health Service has a separate unit termed an Industrial Hygiene Unit. Our work in the Industrial Hygiene in Illinois, as I mentioned before, is for the prevention and elimination of any hazards that might be found in industry. As I understand their work, they are aiming toward the same end. However, our division is the only law-enforcing division in the State. The Public Health Service if it enters a plant, some factory, does so only by courtesy of the Labor Department; in other words, whatever right of entry they may have is given to them as a courtesy by the Department of Labor to carry on whatever work they may do.

It is our experience, likewise, from information that we have received from time to time from written reports of the Hygiene Unit of the Public Health Service that their work has primarily been concerned with surveys.

Now, I want to sell this committee's attention to this fact, that the Industrial Hygiene Unit of the Department of Labor carries on not only a survey work in its inspection work, but likewise under the code has the right under the law to right directory orders for the correction of any particular hazards that they may discovery in their inspec

tion work.

Senator ELLENDER. Will you answer a question for me, please?
Mr. FALASZ. I will, Senator.

Senator ELLENDER. Under what department in your State is this industrial hygiene work that is carried on in the State of Illinois? Mr. FALASZ. Department of Labor.

Senator ELLENDER. And has the hygiene or health department of the State any jurisdiction at all over it?

Mr. FALASZ. None whatsoever.

Senator ELLENDER. No connection?

Mr. FALASZ. No connection.

Senator ELLENDER. Do they do separate work? Do they cooperate in any way?

Mr. FALASZ. Only to the extent of giving us a typewritten report, sometimes consisting of three to four to five pages on an ordinary letterhead to inform us that they have inspected a particular plant, and found so many employees, found particular conditions existing there, and maybe some particular points, and to inform us what they are, and so on.

Senator MURRAY. You would already have that information, wouldn't you?

Mr. FALASZ. If we had not we have to send out our chemist or our ventilating engineer or a factory inspector to cover that plant and go. over and do that work again.

Senator MURRAY. So there is complete duplication?

Mr. FALASZ. Right.

Senator ELLENDER. You say that the Public Health Department of the State of Illinois has a hygiene unit whose business it is to make. surveys only?

Mr. FALASZ. That is from our experience as nearly as I can get. Senator ELLENDER. What would be the objection in having under the Public Health Department a department for industrial hygiene, the same as you have under the labor department? What would be the objection to that? Why have it under the Labor Department, in other words?

Mr. FALASZ. Because the labor department is the only agency in the State that is empowered by the legislature to make these inspections. Senator ELLENDER. Could not the legislature do the same thing in giving the same power to the industrial hygiene department if it is put under the Public Health?

Mr. FALASZ. Then you would have two unts doing the same work and a duplication of the exact work.

Senator ELLENDER. My idea would be to probably combine the hygiene unit under the public health or expand it so that it will do the work of industrial hygiene, as well?

Mr. FALASZ. Well, then, I believe they would have to set up practically the same department as we have in the department of labor; in other words, you have a complete division of factory inspection in the hygiene division of the Department of Public Health.

Senator ELLENDER. That is why I am suggesting it, because all of it would naturally be for public health, and to have one under labor and the other under public health, I cannot see why you could not accomplish the same result as I suggest.

Mr. FALASZ. They probably could if they had the same set-up.
Senator ELLENDER. And probably do as fine a job?

Mr. FALASZ. Probably would. We have in the division besides this unit, 46 factory inspectors who cover the entire State of Illinois. The factory inspectors have assigned to them the different districts throughout the State, and they are working closely coordinated with the hygiene division; in other words, the factory inspector very often is compelled to resort to advice and other informational service from our unit, our hygiene unit. Consequently, all of this work for the prevention of any of these hazards is within the Department of Labor. It is found there, and it has existed there.

Senator MURRAY. The workers of this country would vigorously oppose any effort to take that out of the Labor Department and set it over into some other department?

Mr. FALASZ. They would.

Senator MURRAY. All of the leaders of the labor organizations. I take it, take that stand. Mr. Woll was here the other day and made a statement to that effect.

Mr. FALASZ. That is correct. And in saying, I am likewise expressing the sentiments of Mr. Derkin, who is the Director of Labor. Senator ELLENDER. Don't you think that should any plan be submitted to Washington and any money should be allocated to do industrial hygiene activities, that any money distributed would be placed at the disposal of that department in the State that has to do with industrial hygiene activities?

Mr. FALASZ. The Labor Department?

Senator ELLENDER. I say, would that not naturally follow?

Mr. FALASZ. Right. If we can be sure that the Labor Department can have this privilege of having this money allocated to them.

Senator ELLENDER. Under title 6, the money can be specifically allocated for that purpose, and necessarily-I say necessarily with the view that if a State performs that service under the Labor Department, a department that does this industrial hygiene work, the money would have to be spent under the jurisdiction of that depart

ment.