Mrs. GREEN. Thank you very much, Dr. Morse.

Dr. MORSE. Mrs. Green, may I make one last comment on a question I had hoped I would be asked, because you asked it of several others? Mrs. GREEN. Yes.

Dr. MORSE. You asked about the proposal of alternatives of either using a complicated CSS form, which is not really so complicated as it looks, or an arbitrary cutoff, of, say, a $4,000 limit. I, personally would favor the use of the detailed form, because I think you can come closer to getting a just estimate of need. But, I think it would be a dreadful mistake to put in any arbitrary figure such as $4,000 and say there will be no stipends above this figure. It would be equally a mistake to say above $5,000 or $6,000, because one must in assessing the ability of the parent to support a youngster in college take into consideration (a) the number of children in the family; (b) the number who may be in college at any one time; and (c) the amount of unusual indicated expense they may have. So, any raw, gross figure such as that would lead to dreadful injustices.

It is possible, if you wish not to use as complicated a form as the complete financial questionnaire data sheet, to get pretty close to the same kind of justice in analyzing the need of parents by using the income tax paid, because the income tax process itself takes into consideration such matters as the number of dependents and unusual medical expenses and that kind of thing. So, you do not necessarily need to go to the complicated form in order to have a system, but I think gross income figures would be very unfair.

Mrs. GREEN. Has there been any reluctance on the part of parents or families to opening up their really true financial picture?

Dr. MORSE. Astonishingly enough, virtually none. I remember in 1955 when we started this thing, we all crossed our fingers and expected blasts, and once in a while a family protests that we seem to think they are more prosperous than they think they are, but I do not know if I have heard anyone in my years in this work complaining that he had to fill this out, and yet we expected that there would be complaints.

Mrs. GREEN. May I interject a hypothetical case which I have heard discussed in connection with the national merit scholarship program: If you have family A and the income is $25,000 a year, we will say, and they have bought a home much beyond their means and they have a $40,000 mortgage and own two cars and a lot of other things and have put nothing aside for the college education of their children which they need to send to college, while family B down the street has the same income and has bought a home within its means and the home is practically paid for and they have systematically put aside something for the education of their youngsters and can send their youngsters to college and do not need the scholarships, are you not penalizing the thrift and careful planning and so on of that family in awarding the scholarship to a family that does not really need it any worse than the other?

Dr. MORSE. Yes; the system does that, Mrs. Green, because the system does not have any judgment. The system does not think. This is why, although one can compute the expected contribution of a family

out of lots and lots of numbers, no financial aid officer with any sanity ever takes that figure and automatically applies it to decide that this boy or girl will get so much money. The computing machine is useful to give you a figure to start from. I think that in the actual operation of the program the financial aid officers all over the country are inclined to give the maximum possible award to the frugal family we are talking about, and to give far below what the figures say the youngster from the profligate family needs. There may be a large gap for the family to fill, but who knows all things? So, in the operation of the thing I hope there will be used some intelligence and some judgment and some human feeling and that we get away from the seemingly-you have picked the worst flaw in the whole system, obviously, and which is unconscionable if it is applied ruthlessly.

Mrs. GREEN. You work with the National Merit Scholarship program and you have talked to some of the people who administer this program and you say this is a real problem and some of them say they are opposed strenuously to financing it completely and making the award on this basis.

Dr. MORSE. I know. I must say I have been only on the selection committee of the National Merit Scholarship Corp. and not on their board of directors. I help pick the students and do not say how they ought to be picked. I know Mr. Stonamaker and, occasionally, he has protested loudly over the whole need concept. I think this is a decision for the corporation and its sponsors to make, but as long as one is going to use a need concept, and I feel one must as long as one is trying to make one's dollars help youngsters who without help are not going to get to college, then you must have some kind of system to start with. It is far from perfect, but it is very far from being as imperfect as some critics think, including Mr. Stona

maker.

Mr. QUIE. One other question:

Under this bill for all those who received a stipend there would be $350 granted to the institution. You say the institution would not necessarily be going out trying to bring these students in, but would there not be quite a bit of competition among them to bring in the Federal scholarships, because every time one came in the Federal Government would pay $350 per student?

Dr. MORSE. That would be true if, let us say, we can take into account two hypothetical matters: The public institution which is charging little or no tuition. For them that $350 is clearly necessary if these additional scholars are to be an additional load on the taxpayers of the State. I hope you would agree with me. Let us take the high-cost institutions: I agree that there might very well be this kind of competition among the private institutions were it not for the fact that the scholarship stipend is low enough so that these institutions will have to provide additional financial aid for the students; therefore the $350 you are granting is going into the right-hand pocket of the institution and as much as $350 may go out of the left-hand pocket to help the youngster balance his budget on the $1,000 maximum that you have allowed. I do not think that competition is inconceivable. But, let me say that even if a little competition did take place, if we are going to reach the kind of youngsters we need to reach, I think it is good and I would hope the colleges would be going out looking for them. I think it would not be unhealthy at all.

Mrs. GREEN. So, you would probably have somewhat the same thing as exists now. There must be competition for national merit scholarships?

Dr. MORSE. There is some, although it is far less than one would suppose. Despite the fierceness of our competition on athletic fields and everything else, there is a feeling today of respect for ethics, on the other hand, and all institutions are trying to make themselves highly desired by the ablest people in the country. I am sure there are also recruiting offices, but there is not anything unhealthy about the competition for the attraction of merit scholars to institutions. Despite the fact it is looked on as a matter of prestige, I am sure you have a number of merit scholars enrolled in one particular institution, and I hope the same thing would be true for the Federal scholarships. However, I do not think the Federal scholarship program is going to concentrate all of the Federal scholars in a few institutions in the Northeast, because the stipend is not large enough and because in order to go to RPI, let us say, the Federal scholar who wins the top stipend is still going to have to dig up another $1,600 per year to come. If he wants to come to us, I say this: He is required to earn about $600 during a year and we dig $600 out of our scholarship program and fill the balance with a national defense loan. This is the kind of package I see, but I do not think this program is going to lead to that kind of concentration.

Mrs. GREEN. My apologies for keeping you so long.

Just one question: There is a provision in the bill that students receiving scholarships may go to a college or university of their choice. If we follow the recommendation of some and allow the colleges and universities to administer the scholarship program, what effect would that have on that provision?

Dr. MORSE. I think it will make it almost impossible. I do not think it can be done. I think the student, instead of deciding where he would like to go to college will say, "Where do I have the best chance of getting a scholarship?"

This will put a tremendous premium on guessing. Our organization gave this considerable thought. The longer we looked into it— and we studied it awfully hard-the more this kind of thing occurred to us and the more we felt this is not the right approach.

Mrs. GREEN. Thank you very much.

At this point we will insert in the record the report of the Advisory Committee on National Student Financial Aid Programs. (The report referred to follows:)

FEDERAL STUDENT AID PROGRAM-REPORT OF THE ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON NATIONAL STUDENT FINANCIAL AID PROGRAMS

In an effort to inform higher education of the implications of various national problems and proposals concerning student financial aid, the College Scholarship Service has appointed the Advisory Committee on National Student Financial Aid Programs. It should, of course, be understood that in expressing the views of its members on matters of national interest, the committee undertakes to speak to the educational community but not for it.

The prospect of newly emerging or revised programs of Federal aid to college students has prompted the committee to consider in this report the four major forms which Federal action might take: First, a Federal scholarship program; second, modifications in the National Defense Education Act loan program; third, a federally insured student loan program; and fourth, Federal income tax credit plans for educational expenses.

Implicit throughout this report are two assumptions: First, the expenses of higher education represent a growing hardship for the average American family and thus, an increasingly significant barrier to higher education for many of our young people; and second, to alleviate this situation, programs of national scope using Federal funds are both warranted and needed.

A FEDERAL SCHOLARSHIP PROGRAM

Most, but not all, proposals favoring a Federal scholarship program consider this form of aid especially necessary for the student of ability who will never consider going to college or whose college plans will be seriously affected by family financial limitations. Rare is the proposal which does not emphasize consideration of need. Most opponents of a Federal scholarship program express concern over the problems confronting the needy student, but question that scholarships will solve them. Presumably such doubts would vanish if scholarship programs were devised to provide the encouragement, incentive, and funds which would lead needy students to seek a higher education.

Proposals now before the public favoring a Federal scholarship program differ in the number of awards suggested, the assignment of administrative responsibility, the size of awards, and the extent to which they would duplicate existing private or public programs. That these differences exist, in spite of a common concern for lost student talent, suggests a lack of agreement on the method by which able but impoverished students can be assisted by Government to obtain a higher education.

Critics of a Federal scholarship program consider that it would stimulate increases in college fees, lead to a concentration of students in relatively few institutions, and provide support for students who are attending college.

Like many other groups, the committee favors the establishment of a Federal scholarship program. It believes that the equalization of higher educational opportunity, one of our Nation's major goals, can best be met by a well-conceived Federal scholarship program. While there are other measures which could improve educational opportunity, in the committee's judgment, none would be addressed so directly to this objective as a scholarship program. The commit

tee has sought to identify the principles which in its judgment characterize a meaningful scholarship program. It now offers these principles to other educators for their consideration:

1. A Federal scholarship program should be an instrument of encouragement and motivation to able students who are not currently attending college.—Few existing programs accomplish this objective; a Federal scholarship program which merely duplicates current programs is certainly not needed. At present, the extremely able but needy student is receiving ample financial assistance and attending college. The moderately able, moderately needy student is also obtaining a higher education. The moderately able and very needy student has been overlooked. In this last group are hidden thousands of talented young people for whom a program is vitally needed which will stimulate and encourage them to seek a higher education. Conventional methods of selection, too literally used, fail to perceive the intellectual potential of this group.

A program to assist the moderately able and needy student may lack the glamour and ease of administration of existing programs, but if equality of educational opportunity is worth achieving, these are considerations which should be dismissed.

2. A Federal scholarship program should be designed only as an instrument of student support.-The problem which such a program should solve is too complex in itself to be made part of a more general effort to finance institutions, pay faculty, or support building programs. There are many important needs of higher education, but a scholarship program should be aimed only at solving the individual student's unique set of financial and educational problems.

3. A Federal scholarship program should be designed to complement various student support programs already in existence.-The Nation's colleges, many organizations, the Federal and State Governments, all support excellent and much needed student aid programs. Any new Federal program should take into consideration the purposes and achievements of these programs, and it should seek, in the words of President Kennedy, "to supplement but not supplant those programs of financial assistance to students which are now in operation."

Maximum personal financial efforts have rightly come to be expected of parents to support the higher education of their children. A helpful program, therefore, should provide sufficient basic support so that impoverished students can see that

it will be possible to attend college through the supplementary resources resulting from their own efforts or aid provided by colleges or other agencies.

4. A Federal scholarship program should attempt to select winners before other scholarship programs.-Educators agree that the identification and encouragement of able youth should begin as early as possible in a student's educational career. This is particularly true for the extremely needy student whose college aspirations too frequently fade as he completes his secondary education. Many programs which make their selections in the student's senior year provide little encouragement to the student who has not developed the incentive to attend college. The committee believes that a Federal program should seek to identify students it intends to assist early in their junior year of high school. (Research, currently available, shows that prediction of college success is possible and practicable at this early level.) Awards could then be announced before the student enters his senior year. Such a plan would provide great encouragement for the extremely needy student at a crucial time in his educational career. In addition, it would permit him to seek supplementary aid, if it were needed, from existing scholarship agencies which might be more inclined to assist him if he possessed some means of meeting part of the costs of higher education. 5. A Federal scholarship program should provide funds to individuals only in an amount necessary to encourage the student's attendance at a college, not în amounts which will necessarily pay all his college expenses.-Large stipends or grants may be proper in some programs but they should not be part of a Federal scholarship plan. Money, even in small amounts, should not be given to students who do not have serious need for it. Assistance of no more than $800 could greatly assist a student from a low income family, for if he combined this amount with self-help (loans or jobs), the student with no assistance from his family could make a choice of many institutions of higher education. The payment of excessive money to students could contribute to increases in college fees and unduly promote the attendance of students at a number of high-cost institutions.

6. A Federal scholarship program should provide grants varying according to the financial strength of the student and his parents.—An ideal Federal program would be one which provided student grants not in excess of $800, or the cost of tuition, fees, and books plus $300, whichever were smaller. The size of the grants should be determined by an index which would consider the resources of both the student and his parents. As an alternative, the amount of Federal income tax paid by the family could be used as a measure of financial strength. Students from families with incomes above the national average would receive little, if any, assistance.

The committee feels strongly that no money should be used merely to honor students. The award of so-called certificates of merit would serve little purpose unless they might be used to assure the student a stipend during his upper-class years if his parents encountered some unexpected financial difficulties.

7. A Federal scholarship program should be administered through State scholarship commissions.-It has been proposed that a Federal scholarship program should be administered by colleges and/or State governments. Although it might be ideal for colleges to administer such a program, the problems of administration and of distributing funds equitably, and the probability that any foreseeable appropriation would be spread too thinly to have any impact led the committee to reject this approach and favor the administration of a Federal program by State scholarship commissions.

Several States have already demonstrated their ability to handle certain kinds of scholarship programs with great skill. Commissions formed at the State level should be composed of educational leaders and should be given considerable freedom in the conduct of programs in their areas. A federally or centrally administered program would have many disadvantages, not the least of which would be the likely imposition upon higher education of certain common procedures and policies which could be detrimental.

8. A Federal scholarship program should employ indexes of aptitude and achievement in the selection of award winners.-In large selection programs, the temptation to resort to a single index is often great. A Federal scholarship program should not be an intellectual contest, rather it should be an effort to discover and encourage needy students to enter college. Often the cultural and educational deprivation of such students makes it difficult to measure by standard testing devices their ability to do good work in college. It is, therefore, essential that in addition to using recognized measures of scholastic aptitude, very