Dr. BUNTING. Unquestionably. This is part of the whole climate in this country, I think, and I think it happens again and again. Some of the ablest students we have got in the State university where I have just been are students that would tell me that had they not gotten scholarships their parents would send their brothers but not send them. And these were the students that were going to do all sorts of things later.

Mrs. GREEN. I might say to the members of the subcommittee that later on when we take up the bill on equal pay for equal work I hope we invite Dr. Bunting back to discuss the large number of women who could be brought back into the labor force or in the professions after their families have grown. It seems to me that this specifically is the area where we should look and give it great consideration.

Dr. Bunting, if I might put a couple questions:

Do you know the latest count of the number of colleges and universities that do not participate in the National Defense Education Act program?

Dr. BUNTING. The latest figure I heard was in the thirties. I do not know the exact number.

Mrs. GREEN. And do you know how many do not participate in the program under the National Defense Education Act because of the disclaimer oath?

Dr. BUNTING. I do not.

Mrs. GREEN. Would it not be true that unless we can remove the disclaimer oath that the same colleges and universities cannot participate in this scholarship program?

Dr. BUNTING. I would think that is right, yes.

Mrs. GREEN. Therefore, you would urge that something be done about it?

Dr. BUNTING. That is right.

Mrs. GREEN. You talked about the needs test. Would you have any preference as between these two alternatives: (1) A lengthy financial questionnaire that would be given to the student applying for a scholarship or to his family; or (2) the suggestion one witness made that we have an automatic cutoff of the family income. This witness suggested $4,000-that any student would be eligible to participate in the scholarship program only if his family's income was less that $4,000.

Dr. BUNTING. I can see that would be easier to administer in many ways, but that you would get the information you needed most, I would doubt, and I would favor the first alternative at this time.

Mrs. GREEN. You do not think there is sufficient objection to this kind of questionnaire being requested?

Dr. BUNTING. It seems to me it is part and parcel of the demands made on us, on income tax and everything else.

Mr. GIAIMO. Could I ask one further question?

Mrs. GREEN. Mr. Giaimo.

Mr. GIAIMO. Dr. Bunting, to get back to this problem you touched on, it has been my observation-and I want to be very careful how I phrase this question-that there is a great body of talented girls in their middle thirties and upward who have good training, good education, and ability, and it seems they desire to do something and yet there does not seem to be much for them to do. Has any thinking been done on how their talents could be utilized?

Dr. BUNTING. I think there is a great deal of thinking going on now. If we are interested in the total trained talent in this country, we certainly have to look hard at that situation where a very talented girl takes a secretarial job to put her husband through school, and that sort of thing. It is a great waste. I think grants to institutions that would like to start programs to meet these needs would be very important, because it is in this stage of their life they do have special needs and when it means a choice between family and carrying on their profession, they are unfortunate, and specially designed programs, I think, could meet these needs.

Mr. GIAIMO. From my observation there is a great source of good talent there.

Dr. BUNTING. That is right. And I think that has been neglected. Mrs. GREEN. Thank you very much, Dr. Bunting.

Dr. BUNTING. Thank you.

Mrs. GREEN. I am glad to turn to the Congressman from Indiana, Congressman Brademas, to introduce the next witness from Indiana.

Mr. BRADEMAS. It is a great privilege and a pleasure for me to introduce Dr. Eunice Roberts, who is the assistant dean of the faculties and director of women's educational programs at Indiana University in Bloomington.

Dr. Roberts has served in the field of education in a variety of capacities. She has served as the head of the modern language department at Eastern New Mexico University, as its dean of student personnel and as director of its summer school session. She has also served as a visiting lecturer on American education at the International College, Elsinore, Denmark, and has worked actively in Councils for UNESCO in the United States. She attended the XIII Conference of the International Federation of University Women in Helsinki in 1959 as a member of the American delegation.

This morning she comes before us as a representative of the American Association of University Women, in which organization she has held and now holds a number of positions.

Dr. Roberts, we are very happy to have you with us this morning. STATEMENT OF DR. EUNICE ROBERTS, CHAIRMAN, COMMITTEE ON HIGHER EDUCATION, AMERICAN ASSOCIATION OF UNIVERSITY WOMEN

Dr. ROBERTS. Madam Chairman, Congressman Brademas, and members of the committee, I am, as you know, Eunice C. Roberts, and I am chairman of the Higher Education Committee of the American Association of University Women. This statement is presented on behalf of the committee on higher education and of the legislative program committee of the American Association of University Women.

I know that this is a busy committee and that this statement is in your hands, so I am not going to presume to read it to you, but only to call attention to one or two highlights in the statement, and I should like the privilege then of making a few comments. I would be grateful if the statement could be incorporated in the record.

Mrs. GREEN. The full statement will be made a part of the record at this point.

(The statement follows:)

STATEMENT BY DR. EUNICE ROBERTS, CHAIRMAN, COMMITTEE ON HIGHER EDUCATION, AMERICAN ASSOCIATION OF UNIVERSITY WOMEN

I am Mrs. Eunice C. Roberts and I am chairman of the Higher Education Committee of the American Association of University Women. This statement is presented on behalf of the committee on higher education and of the legislative program committee of the American Association of University Women.

The association has a membership of approximately 145,000 college graduates and is organized into 1,470 branches in the 50 States, Guam, and the District of Columbia.

The association values highly the opportunity to appear before this subcommittee on Education on behalf of Federal support of higher education.

The association's first interest after its founding in 1882 was in opening higher education to more women and it has since that time steadfastly pursued this objective. Members believe that as all higher education improves so will women's education. Therefore, whether lay or professional members, they have studied its year-in-year-out progress in order to be effective supporters and leaders in its behalf.

This study and action can be recognized, for example, in the participation of the members in followup work in States and communities as suggested by the recent President's Committee on Education Beyond the High School, in their vigorous support of State bond issues to strengthen higher education. Committed as the association has been and is to educating in college as many intellectually qualified women as possible, the members all over the country have fought for college and career guidance and counseling for secondary school youngsters as part of the regular school program. Where this service has not existed, members have themselves provided it either by paying for it for an experimental period or contributing it from their own membership. This is a great service in itself, but it has had a second value for it has demonstrated the worth of counseling so frequently that this help has thereafter been brought to boys and girls as a regular school service. This AAUW activity is still one in heavy demand all over the country. In the interest particularly of women's undergraduate higher education, members through their branch organizations have raised money to help local girls go to college. There are many illustrations of this work; but a recent survey is a good one. Between 1953 and 1958, the amount raised for local scholarships was a minimum of over $300,000 for more than 1,771 scholarships. Substantial sums have also been raised, even in many of the same branches, for loans for the college education of local girls. One branch in a college town bought and maintains a co-op house for needy women students of the college. Most of these efforts have been going on for a good many years, some as many as 60 years. The AAUW was among the first to recognize that talented women must go beyond the bachelor's degree for graduate and professional education and began raising money and granting national and international fellowships to women in 1890. Since that time nearly 1,500 women have had $3 million in aid, and the present market value of the invested fellowships funds is over $3 million. In recent years the association has been awarding an average of 87 fellowships each year involving a sum of a quarter of a million dollars.

The AAUW has in its 79 years lived to see its belief that women should have the benefit of college education become a fact: undergraduate and graduate education are open to women. The association, in biennial conventions over the years, has reiterated again and again its profound conviction that higher education for all who have the ability for it is a necessity for the general welfare of the United States of America. This hardly needs substantiation, but perhaps a word of reminder about women might be appropriate. The responsibilities of women for the education of the next generation and for the operation of civic enterprises are tremendous; for these the best education is none too good. If any further proof were desired, the national need for specialized, talented manpower and the trend of at least 15 years for qualified married college women to return to gainful occupations in their mature years would amply support AAUW's position.

Over the years the votes of the AAUW convention on these matters have varied in detail with the changing pattern of American life, but they have never deviated from the firm position that higher education must be open

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to all who are able for it and must be well supported to assure excellent education. As recently as 1959 the convention passed these resolutions on higher education, fellowships, and international cultural exchange.

We believe in liberal education designed to produce a knowledge and appreciation of different cultural heritages and to free the individual to think independently, to serve society, and to act with choice, enlightenment, and imagination. We dedicate ourselves to furthering college programs which rest not only on an understanding of facts, but also on ideals and theories which elicit judgment.

We recognize the personnel shortage facing institutions of higher learning and we will promote the recruitment of qualified college faculty members and administrators.

We recognize the increasing financial difficulties of our institutions of higher learning and we will support measures to help meet the problems created by higher costs and mounting enrollments.

We reaffirm our belief in the importance of the participation of women in the expansion of knowledge and we therefore reaffirm our support of an expanding program of fellowships which has brought worldwide recognition to the association and is one of our most glorious achievements.

Since knowledge is indivisible and can grow only by a free exchange of information and experience, we will encourage an increase of interchange of technicians, professionals, scholars, and students.

As has been stated, it has been the privilege of the members of the association to implement these resolutions in as many ways as their imaginations and means could devise.

In convention the members voted to carry out these resolutions at the level of Federal higher education legislation by supporting measures in education beyond the high school which would insure a balanced educational program of quality, an increase in the supply of qualified faculty members, a reduction of financial barriers to higher education for qualified students, and financial assistance to regionally accredited institutions for the improvement and expansion of facilities.

Under this authority, the association worked actively for the enactment of the National Defense Education Act and, since its passage, for its full implementation. The association has supported legislation for assisting in the financing of college housing and at the present time also favors proposals which include Federal loans for academic facilities. AAUW backing has also been given to the idea of tax exemption for the expenses paid to an institution for students' college education. The AAUW Committee on Higher Education has voted to support a system of federally financed scholarships. The scholarship plan proposed in H.R. 5266 would enlist AAUW support. The AAUW has supported the educational exchange program, and is firmly behind appropriations to the U.S. Office of Education so that it may carry out its obligations, especially in higher education, at a high level of effectiveness.

At this time AAUW would like to comment specifically upon the National Defense Education Act. As mentioned above, the association was happy that it was passed believing that it provided essential service to the Nation by making college education possible to an increased number of able young people. The association wishes also to commend the administrators of the act which have contributed a great deal to its overall value. Nevertheless, at this moment it seems appropriate to the association to call your attention to one or two points on which we beg your consideration.

First of all, AAUW is of the opinion that the disclaimer affidavit found in section 1001 (f) of the NDEA is undesirable as it is, in our judgment, an invasion of intellectual freedom and singles out students as a special group within the body politic in a manner which AAUW considers unwise. We hope it will not appear in new legislation. We would, on the other hand, like to speak very strongly for an extension of financial aid to fellowships on a plan similar to that of title IV of NDEA. In addition we favor an extension to permit appointments for graduate students whose academic progress indicates they would be able in 1 year to complete the doctorate. We have been very favorably impressed by the operation of the loan provisions of title II and we hope this too can be extended.

AAUW has watched with particular interest the relation of title II and title IV to the education of women. We are happy to find, contrary to many early predictions, that the loan opportunity has been capitalized on by so many under

graduate women. The percentage of its use by women has apparently increased in the years of operation of the act. We believe it has increased the number of women college students and graduates. The fellowship opportunity has also improved the chances of women for graduate work. Women have badly needed additional financial support not alone to encourage them to qualify fully for specialized positions but also for earlier entry into professional fields of those already so motivated. We believe an increasing number of women will want the advantage of this support both at the younger age and when as mature people they are planning to return to their professions. From the point of view of the association, the two titles mentioned have particular value to women and the Nation.

Because the several titles of the NDEA cover areas not provided for in the administration bill H.R. 5266, nor in other bills under consideration, we urge extension of the NDEA as a supplement to the legislation now under consideration.

Finally, we hope that in new legislation particular stress will not be placed upon any one area of learning rather than another. We believe that it is important to educate in any and all areas for it is impossible to forecast where in the future the greatest national need will be.

On behalf of the association may I thank you for the opportunity of appearing before this subcommittee.

Dr. ROBERTS. The American Association of University Women has a membership of approximately 145,000 college graduates and is organized into 1,470 branches in the 50 States, Guam, and the District of Columbia.

Throughout its almost 80 years of history it has steadfastly pursued its objective of taking all possible measures to advance higher education and the opportunities of higher education for women, but to improve higher education for men and women both and for reasons that are not applied only to women.

This has been done in a variety of ways. The association has vided college and career guidance and counseling for secondary school youngsters as part of their regular school program. It has provided scholarships down through the years, usually in fairly small amount but the total is considerable. It established many years ago a fellowship program to provide opportunity for advanced graduate study for women, partly because there was little opportunity for women for advanced graduate study at that time. And I think the committee would be interested in knowing that through the years nearly 1,500 women have had aid, and the present market value of the invested fellowships funds is over $3 million.

The association, in biennial conventions over the years, has reiterated again and again its profound conviction that higher education for all who have the ability for it is a necessity for the general welfare of the United States. And I should like to make a supplementary comment to that in a moment.

In convention the members voted to carry out its resolutions on higher education, fellowships, and international cultural exchange by supporting measures in education beyond the high school which would insure a balanced educational program of quality, an increase in the supply of qualified faculty members, a reduction of financial barriers to higher education for qualified students, and financial assistance to regionally accredited institutions for the improvement and expansion of facilities.

The association's committee on higher education has voted to support a system of federally financed scholarships. The scholarship plan proposed in H.R. 5266 would enlist AAUW support under that vote.