Two of the items affect the clerical force of the First Assistant Post master General, and I have with me one of my colleagues who wil explain those two items.

The third item is a matter of revenue and I assume is part of the deliberations of the Ways and Means Committee. However, we are very much affected by the termination of those revenues which would follow the passage of any one of these concurrent resolutions.

Mr. SPRINGER. To what particular item does that refer?

Mr. MARTIN. The revenue. Well, there are three items. The postage on local mail which was raised from 2 cents to 3 cents.

Mr. SPRINGER. Just a little louder. There is a little confusion in the

room.

Mr. MARTIN. Yes, sir. The 3-percent increase in parcel post and a certain increase in registration fees.

And I should like to have the representative of the Third Assistant, who is concerned with the finances, explain our position in that respect. For the sake of brevity I think we could omit the 12 items that we have operated under during the war that are not now necessary so far as the postal operations are concerned. Their usefulness has terminated, such as the censorship item. The censorship has been eliminated and so far as we are concerned that is a dead statute at the present time.

There are some other items that might be available to continue from the standpoint of other departments, but from the postal-operations standpoint there are only these three items that we are particularly concerned with.

Mr. SPRINGER. In other words, some of the items can be entirely repealed and eliminated, except the three to which you make special reference?

Mr. MARTIN. That is true, sir, except we would regret very much to see it retroactive, because we would find difficulty in adjusting some of the operations under those items retroactively. If the termination were made at same future date or current date we would have no difficulty at all with the other 12 items.

If it please the committee, then, I will ask Mr. Bruce, of the First Assistant's organization, to explain his two items.

STATEMENT OF C. N. BRUCE, SPECIAL ADMINISTRATIVE AIDE TO THE FIRST ASSISTANT POSTMASTER GENERAL

Mr. BRUCE. My name is C. N. Bruce, and I am special administrative aide to the First Assistant Postmaster General.

Mr. Chairman, the two items in which the Bureau of the First Assistant is interested are, first, Public Law 368, act of June 28, 1944, 58 Stat. 463, which temporarily suspends the operation of section 160, title 39, of the code, which restricts the establishment of stations and branches of post offices beyond 5 miles from the corporate limits of the office to which the branch is attached.

During the war this was suspended because of the necessity of establishing branches at Army and Navy installations, many of which were in some instances 100 miles from the home office. We, of course, had to establish the branches. Some of them were operated subsequently by Army and Navy people. Since the war is over we had to

resume operating those branches and stations with civilian personnel. We are taking over more Army installations and more Navy installations with respect to postal facilities, and these branches are located in several instances beyond the 5-mile limit.

If that is repealed, either we will have to discontinue the postal installation or find a postmaster to operate it, and he has to live on or near the military reservation. It will be practically impossible to find postmasters just now under such conditions.

The other law is also a temporary measure as a corollary to that law, Public Law 128, approved July 29, 1943, 57 Stat. 586, amended by Public Law 249, approved December 7, 1945.

In most of these cases employees have to travel sometimes considerable distances to these installations and have to reside at the branch or office, have no place for their family in many instances, and have to pay additional money to secure accommodations.

For that reason this law was passed to pay per diem up to $4. The general average runs anywhere from $2 and up a day.

It is not possible to tell when the need for this legislation will terminate. It will depend entirely upon the Army and Navy. We cannot establish post offices on a temporary basis because we cannot get the personnel.

That is what prompted both of these acts. For that reason we feel until such time as conditions settle down we should have these two exceptions to operate on.

Mr. HANCOCK. Are the Army and Navy folks being released so fast as you are able to replace them with civilians; is that the idea?

Mr. BRUCE. Yes, sir; we are coming along very rapidly.

At every installation the Army and Navy during the war emergency operated as Army and Navy post offices, and we operated, of course, many as civilian post offices. We are taking them over wherever the Army and Navy request.

At the present time we have probably 300 that are in operation now, paying a per diem under Public Law 249.

Mr. HANCOCK. That means branch offices?

Mr. BRUCE. Yes, sir. Some of these allowances only run 20 cents a day. For example, for Army and Navy hospitals it is generally only additional carfare that the employee has to provide.

Öthers run as high as $4 a day, which is the maximum, in instances where the branch may be 100 miles from the main office. Of course, the clerk cannot go back and forth each day.

Mr. HANCOCK. You cannot anticipate when this emergency power you have will be no longer needed?

Mr. BRUCE. No, sir; that would be impossible.

Mr. HANCOCK. You must await the demobilization and the permanent set up of the Army and Navy?

Mr. BRUCE. That is it exactly, sir. I do not believe they can tell either. We have conferred with them on items of that nature. I do not think anyone can foretell that just now.

Mr. HOBBS. Are there any other questions? If not we are very grateful to you.

Mr. MARTIN. Mr. Wentzel, the third assistant.

Mr. HOBBS. Yes.

STATEMENT OF NELSON B. WENTZEL, DEPUTY THIRD ASSISTANT, POSTMASTER GENERAL

Mr. WENTZEL. My name is Nelson B. Wentzel, Deputy Third Assistant Postmaster General.

Mr. Chairman, and gentlemen of the committee, the Revenue Act of 1943, title 4, had a number of increases in the postal rates and charges for special services. A number of those were modified in September 1944, effective November 1, 1944.

The others that are still in effect and which we would like to call your attention to represent, first, the increase

Mr. HOBBS (interposing). Excuse me just a minute. This is off the record.

(Discussion off the record, after which the following occurred:) Mr. WENTZEL. The first one to which I would like to call your attention is section 402 of that title IV, of Public Law 235, which increased the rate on local first-class matter to 3 cents.

That measure, of course, will expire 6 months after the first day of the first month following the termination of hostilities. It brings in approximately $50,000,000 a year.

Another item is section 405 of the same title, which increased the registry fees and surcharges by 33% percent.

And then the next one is section 409, which provided an additional fee, in fact, it doubled the fee for getting restricted delivery for register and collecting on delivery mail.

There are three items-registered mail, surcharges, and restricted delivery bringing in about $8,000,000.

The section 403 which relates to fourth-class or parcel-post mail provides for increasing those rates by 3 percent, and while we have no definite information as to the amount of additional revenue which this provision brings in, it is estimated, roughly, at around eight or ten million dollars.

So that the total amount involved in these three items would run anywhere from $65,000,000 to $70,000,000 a year.

In view of the present state of the postal finances we are faced with the prospect of a deficit at the end of this fiscal year of over $160,000,000 as compared with the actual surplus last year of approximately the

same amount.

It appears desirable to continue those increases and our purpose is to bring that to your attention at this time.

Mr. HOBBS. This is off the record.

(Discussion off the record, after which the following occurred :) Mr. FEIGHAN. To what do you attribute that sharp decline, roughly! Mr. WENTZEL. The return of the armed forces from overseas has resulted in a tremendous increase of not only parcel post, but letter mail, and particularly air mail, which is used very, very extensively, and, of course, our expenditures have gone up, as you gentlemen well know, from the recent salary increases.

Mr. FELLOWS. You feel if a resolution terminating hostilities is to be passed those three propositions you have mentioned should be continued?

Mr. WENTZEL. We do. That is the view of the Department; yes, sir. And we would like to suggest, too, in fixing the date it should be such

as not to make any of these, if you do accept any of these, not to make it retroactive. I notice that one of those resolutions under your consideration would go back to September. And, of course, that would expire around April 1, and we would be in a nice fix if we had to go to try to refund postage we had collected since September 1 if it were made retroactive.

Mr. HANCOCK. Have you recommended to the House legislation making these temporary provisions permanent?

Mr. WENTZEL. No; I would not do that I do not believe. We have not considered that angle.

As you gentlemen know, there are some bills pending to readjust postage rates and the committees in which you are considering those will take care of them in their considerations.

Mr. ROBSION. I wonder if I could ask a question?

Mr. HOBBS. Certainly. We would be glad to have you do it.

Mr. ROBSION. Would it not be more practical, if these increases need to be granted, to ask appropriate committees to take such action on them as they deemed necessary rather than to hold up the entire war and the closing of the declaration?

Mr. WENTZEL. Of course, it would be governed by your desires in that matter.

Mr. ROBSION. So far as making it retroactive, do you think any Member of the House or Senate would be so impractical to support a thing like that? Would you?

Mr. WENTZEL. I would hardly think so.

That is all I have to say.

Mr. HOBBS. We are very much obliged to you, Mr. Wentzel.

We will be glad to have any others, Mr. Martin.

Mr. MARTIN. That is all, sir.

Mr. HOBBS. We are certainly very grateful to you for your pres

ence and testimony.

Mr. MARTIN. Thank you, sir.

Mr. HOBBS. Any others?

Mr. EMERSON. Yes, sir, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Slaughter, of the Interior Department.

STATEMENT OF HERBERT J. SLAUGHTER, ASSISTANT SOLICITOR, DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR

Mr. SLAUGHTER. My name is Herbert J. Slaughter, Assistant Solicitor of the Department of the Interior.

Mr. Chairman, when I appeared before your committee yesterday I discussed three statutes among the some two score that affect the Interior Department. The Interior Department believes that these three should not be permitted to expire in accordance with their terms at the present time.

Today, since I understand that your committee is going into the matter of all these statutes very thoroughly, I would like to run over briefly the complete list, including those statutes that can be permitted to expire without any undue difficulty, in addition to the three that I discussed yesterday which should be permitted to continue in effect for a longer period.

I will go over the statutes in the order in which they appear in the -tabulation that has been prepared for your committee by the Office of War Mobilization and Reconversion.

The first statute is Public Law 542 of the Seventy-seventh Congress, providing for the suspension of annual assessment work on mining claims. That statute suspended for the wartime period the duty of holders of mining claims on the public lands to perform $100 worth of labor on their claims every year. The expiration date is 12 o'clock noon on the 1st day of July following the termination of the war as declared by the Congress.

It is important that this act should expire on a July 1 rather than at some intervening time, because under the Revised Statutes the period for doing assessment work on mining claims runs from one July 1 to the next July 1.

If, for example, this statute were to be repealed tomorrow the holders of mining claims would have to scramble to get their work done between tomorrow and July 1. The statute was written in such a way as to eliminate that difficulty by providing that it should expire on the first of July following the termination of hostilities whenever that was declared to be.

I have mentioned this matter specifically because it illustrates the desirability, as we see it, of declaring the termination of hostilities, and then letting the various statutes expire in accordance with the periods specified in them, whatever they may be, rather than of repealing the statutes without regard to any termination periods that may be prescribed in them.

Mr. HANCOCK. It could be repealed as of July 1, 1946, without any hardship?

Mr. SLAUGHTER. This statute could be repealed as of July 1, 1946, because the holders of mining claims would then have the full assessment period from July 1, 1946, to July 1, 1947, to do the work Mr. HANCOCK. Would you recommend that?

Mr. SLAUGHTER. Yes; so far as this statute is concerned we would recommend that either the war be declared to be terminated as of some time between now and July 1, 1946, or that the statute be repealed as of July 1, 1946. They are alternative methods of accomplishing the same result.

The next statute is Public Law 62 of the Seventy-eighth Congress, authorizing the Secretary of the Interior because of military operations to defer or waive payments under non-mineral leases of public lands in Alaska.

That statute expires 6 months after the termination of hostilities, and we see no particular reason for its continuance.

The next statute on the list is Public Law 237 of the Seventy-eighth Congress, to give effect to the Provisional Fur Seal Agreement of 1942 between the United States and Canada and to protect the fur seals. This is a little bit different from the usual type of wartime statutes.

It contains a number of permanent provisions regulating the taking of fur seals in the North Pacific and controlling the Pribilof Islands, which, as you know, belong to the United States and are reserved for sealing purposes.

In addition to those permanent provisions it contains certain provisions which implement the fur-seal agreement entered into in 1942 between the United States and Canada.