hope that the responsible governing or responsible agencies involved in Public Law 93-638 would consider utilizing the grant options within that particular legislation.

I also note the absence of any discussion regarding contracting, any options that are available under contracting. I note that most of the discussion is related to cost reimbursable type contracts. I think the responsible agencies here also should consider other options available such as fixed price contracting,

On my last comment, something that I don't have any facts to back me up on my concern is I think that the Native community in the State of Alaska should have some voice as to the budget developments, program distribution that currently exist in the State of Alaska primarily in the Indian Health Service total area budget, as well as the Bureau of Indian Affairs budget for the State of Alaska. I mention this because I understand that in the State of Alaska the total budget for the Indian Health Service exceeds $40 million, for the whole State of Alaska. I also understand that the total budget for the Bureau of Indian Affairs in the State of Alaska exceeds $40 million. I also understand that the Bureau of Indian Affairs' budget for the State of Alaska being $40 million, $20 million is allocated to the area office and the other $20 million throughout the State of Alaska. Now, to me that is not quite equitable, and I think there should be some mechanism addressed or established so that the Native community has some participation in the development of the budget for both the Indian Health Service and the Bureau of Indian Affairs.

Mr. Chairman, this concludes my comments, and I'll be happy to submit a written testimony within the 30-day period.

Senator ABOUREZK. That'll be very good. Thank you. [Statement was not received in time to be included in the record.]

Does anybody have any questions?

Senator GRAVEL. Not I. Thank you very much.

Senator ABOUREZK. Thank you very much for your statement and we'll wait for your testimony to be submitted. The next witness is Dean Olson. Is Dean here? Dennis Tiepelman? Dennis, I'd like to welcome you to the subcommittee hearings. Do you have a written statement?

Mr. TIEPELMan. Yes.

Senator ABOUREZK. And how long is that statement, Dennis?

Mr. TIEPELMAN. If I read it, it would probably take about 5 or 10 minutes, but I'll just make a couple comments that I wish you to note on the papers that I have.

Senator ABOUREZK. All right.

STATEMENT OF DENNIS TIEPELMAN, PRESIDENT, MAUNELUK

ASSOCIATION, KOTZEBUE, ALASKA

Mr. TIEPELMAN. I think one of the problems that we have with the definition of Indian tribe is that so many different people can get into the act, and a region our size has 11 villages. And there is 11 village IRA councils we have to deal with, and we have the regional corporation and we haven't even gotten into any kind of tribal organizations, and we have trouble trying to get all these different tribal governing bodies to agree as to who's going to deliver the kind of services that

can be split so many different ways, because you just lose the value of the money.

What we've done in our region is attempted to make sure that everybody knows what they're getting involved in and kind of split the type of activities that they're going to have. Prior to my attendance down here I met with John Schaeffer, president of NANA Regional Corp., and I also met with Tommy Sheldon, Senior, president of the Kotzebue Village Corp., and asked them if any of our activities as a nonprofit regional corporation interfered with their activities and they told me, "no." And I told them what I was going to say here in the written. statement I am presenting.

And the concern that they have is that they thought the Maunelak Association would be a tribal governing body, which is not the case, and they recognize the need that some sort of regionalization of the program is necessary. But according to the interpretation of the Bureau of Indian Affairs, the village IRA councils are the tribal governing bodies and anything that Maunelak Association decides to do has to be an individual resolution from each village, pretty much on a year-by-year basis. So we have minor problems here of trying to make sure that everybody doesn't go their separate ways.

Our region, which is approximately 36,000 square miles, I'm told, is approximately the size of Iowa, and has a population of less than 5,000 people, but we have 11 different villages scattered among that region. And there's the village IRA councils which are 11, the regional corporation which is in Kotzebue, and the village corporation which is in Kotzebue. And all 13 can apply for the contracts at the same time, so that there's a future possibility that none of them could ever disagree if we didn't try to meet and get this established.

The other concern that we have is that in 1991 the regional corporation NANA and Kotzebue Village Corp. will be, their stock and all their assets and everything that they have will be open to the public so that they will not necessarily be addressing Native concerns alone, but concerns that were started with moneys given to Natives and that when you look 20 years down the road Native services might not be important as the all mighty dollar in the course of the way the economics in the United States seems to be moving. So that that becomes a concern, that if they're still the tribal governing bodies that are authorized to receive tribal services from the Bureau of Indian Affairs or Indian Health Service, it might become a situation that's not harmonious to what the people at the local level needs, and I'm talking about the villages in the region that we represent.

I think it's very common to say that a lot of people are scared of "big brother" type of operations, and that's what the regional corporations can become if they're not careful in the definitions that are handed down. Our region, knowing that we had to work with certain definitions tried to make the situation work, and what I'd like to conclude is explain to you how we made it work.

We accepted a definition that the Bureau of Indian Affairs stated and established that the IRA councils are the tribal governing bodies. So we spent the past 2 or 3 months in each village revitalizing all IRA councils that were not in operation, and we made sure that the others started having active meetings and reflected their minutes and unnecessary paperwork to reflect that they are in operation. And it was

easy to do because we have only 11 villages to work with. Other regions, such as the Bethel area, have 56 villages. The Tanana Chiefs has 43. So that might be very difficult for them to achieve. So that the definition of tribe, as the IRA council, can be very hard to achieve in the larger areas.

The other point that we kept in mind was NANA Regional Corp. took the approach that it will not pursue grants and contracts that are of the "service-delivery" type as identified under Public Law 93638. Kotzebue Village Corp. also allied itself with the same idea, but the thing that they both said was that they did this on the basis that they recognized Maunelak Association is the type of organization is delivering and looking after this kind of programs.

The other thing that we have going for us right now as far as making this work is that the villages seem to be compatible with Maunelak Association's philosophy to plan, develop, and assume these kind of programs. But the point to keep in mind is that Maunelak Association is only a tribal organization and not a tribal governing body, so that one of these days we could easily disrupt any activities that we have started at this time.

Some of the recommendations that I think might have to be done, and there's no real answer, is that we'll have to find out if the definition of Indian tribe can be reworded to eliminate the multiauthority of the present tribal governing bodies that are occurring concurrently. I think the point to remember is that many of these tribes can easily become tribal organizations sanctioned by a single tribal governing body, but I don't know which organization that would be or which tribal governing body would be the single authority.

The associations have a need for a place in this act, but they must not be recognized solely on their status alone, because just like anything else we can become too big for our own good and the villages will start complaining that we're not addressing their needs. So I always try to keep that in mind when I'm acting on behalf of the association, that right now most of our activities are not dictated but a voluntary nature and the people seem to agree as to what we're doing at this time.

And in order for Public 93-638 to be more successful in the future we've got to eliminate some of these duplication of activities. And, you know, that's the function of the oversight hearings and various committees and subcommittees and the American Union Policy Review Commission is to review and hear our comments and hopefully we can come to a consensus as to what a tribal governing body will be. Senator ABOUREZK. Thank you very much. Ted.

Senator GRAVEL. No questions.

Senator STEVENS. Again, let me make sure I understand. Your consensus then is the same, that the tribal governing body really ought to be the villages and that they are to consent to organizations such as your carrying out the contract and responsibility?

Mr. TIEPELMAN. Well, I'm saying that it can be made to work, but it's very difficult to do. And a lot of times I think that if a regional nonprofit organization such as ours was identified, it could be more efficient and more effective but at the same time they always have to remember that they respond to the villages they represent. So that a regional corporation or a regional nonprofit association would be more

ideal for my purposes, but I don't think I'm always going to be thinking to myself when I go after programs that "is this what every one village would say they'd want me to do." I'd have to constantly put myself into their shoes and won't necessarily do a good job. I'm vulnerable to my own philosophies as to how I think business should be conducted, and the villages might disagree as to how I do it. And as a consequence, the definition of a good tribal governing body might not work out.

Senator STEVENS. Thank you.

Commissioner BORBRIDGE. Just to pursue that and appreciate your thinking here, do you feel that it would be workable to have the villages, whether it's IRA or some other entity, designated as the tribal governing body and to still have one of the regional entities designated so that each would be eligible with some means of working out between the two as to which would actually be administering the program, or do you feel just one? I think you came very close to answering it. Mr. TIEPELMAN. Well, I think, that a dual definition might be just as effective, but you have to look at one of those being regional and the other one being at the village level. You can-there's already a way in the books to go around that or to make that work, and that's under the Indian Reorganization Act of 1934, you can regionalize your IRA councils so that they're representative at the regional level. That's one of the possibilities that we're pursuing, but again you have to work, do a lot of leg work before a regional IRA council becomes the effective tribal governing body.

Commissioner BORBRIDGE. Thank you.

Senator ABOUREZK. Dennis, thank you very much for your testimony. We appreciate it.

[The prepared statement of Mr. Tiepelman follows:]

STATEMENT OF DENNIS TIEPELMAN, PRESIDENT MAUNELUK ASSOCIATION,

KOTZEBUE, ALASKA

My name is Dennis J. Tiepelman, President, Mauneluk Association, a nonprofit regional corporation designed to administer programs to benefit the constituency of Eskimos residing in Northwest Alaska, otherwise known as the NANA Region. Our offices are in Kotzebue, Alaska.

I have met with John Schaeffer Jr., President of NANA Regional Corporation, and I have met with Tommy Sheldon Sr., President of Kotzebue Village Corporation in order that my comments do not conflict with their respective activities. Last week our office also completed related business activities with the officers of each of our eleven (11) village IRA Councils to ensure compatibility. I have also had conversations with Willie Hensley because of his prominence and respect our region has for all his past and present efforts to ensure Indian Self-Determination.

I am here to address comments concerning the implementation of the Indian Self-Determination Act, Public Law 93-638 (P.L. 93-638). I am here on behalf of the organizations and people of our region.

Whenever Indian legislation is enacted the definitions and administrative agencies can never seem to agree beyond the concept of "helping the American Indian", with the afterthought of saying "and Alaska Natives".

There are RESERVATION programs for Indians, but also note that it has since expanded to include URBAN Indians. Recently in one of our applications for Federal funds I am also now eligible for programs with the appropriate title and label of NON-URBAN/NON-RESERVATION Indian group.

The application process that our organization goes through is rather tedious and dubious when we deal with Indian programs from Federal agencies. Not one agency has a common procedure for applications, documentation, program

delivery, financial reports, etc. As a consequence we have to become experts with the following agencies.

(1) Department of Interior, Bureau of Indian Affairs,

(2) Department of Health, Education, and Welfare: (a) Indian Health Service; (b) Office of Native American Programs; and (c) Indian Education.

(3) Department of Labor, Manpower (CETA) Administration.

(4) Department of Commerce, Economic Development Administration.

I am sure the list could get longer, but the point I wish to make is that the definition of Indian tribe and tribal authority has no application to many of the programs that Alaska Natives are seeking to apply for funds because of the different definitions of eligibility criteria.

The Navajo Tribe in the Southwest U.S. is the single tribal governing body for its people, and everything develops around the tribe and the reservation itself. Most Indian reservations throughout the country enjoy this benefit. This is not the case in Alaska.

A tribe in our region, under current laws, including P.L. 93-638, can be the following:

(1) Village IRA Council (Indian Reorganization Act of 1934, or eleven (11) villages),

(2) Regional Corporation (NANA Regional Corporation),

(3) Village Corporation (Kotzebue Village Corporation).

There are thirteen (13) tribes for less than 5,000 people, and sanctioned tribal organizations have not even been addressed! More importantly we are a smaller one of the twelve (12) political geographical boundaries recognized in Public Law 93-638.

Everything can be expected to run smoothly when harmony exists among all the defined tribes, but when personnel, governments, policies, and philosophical ideas all become intermingled, those thirteen tribes and individual differences they have can create tantamount difficulties.

In 1991 the Regional Corporation (NANA) and the Kotzebue Village Corporation become open to the public, and not necessarily will they be for native benefit. Development and economic conditions will warrant that the American currency be given a higher priority than a native who, for the present time, lives off the land and whose use of money is not all-important. This becomes conflicting when many of the federal programs are designed to benefit the American Indian and Alaska Native who have a special relationship with the Federal government through Congressional legislation that has had to sometimes be substantiated through the judicial process.

The Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act of 1971 must not be construed to mean that it reconciled past actions, and that everything was settled. True it settled the questions of land ownership; but the settlement also realize that fact that Congress recognized that Alaska, approximately 370 million acres, once belonged to all Alaska Natives. Our fight for ownership resulted in the settlement to continue to keep 40 million acres of land and a cash settlement to invest in our own economic conditions. The Indian Self-Determination and Education Assistance Act addresses something else.

The Act (1971) and recently Public Law 93–638 define eligible tribes as being identical. The inference and reference to the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act and the Indian Self-Determination and Education Assistance Act completely separate philosophical ideas put together when Indian tribe was defined for Alaska Natives. It is at times a stifling situation.

Let me tell you how our region has made it work. It is no guarantee it will continue to be successful:

(1) We accepted the definition of BIA and said that IRA Councils are the Tribal governing bodies. We revitalized all IRA Councils into conducting business and taking actions to receive grants under Section 104. Remember we only have eleven (11) villages to deal with ;

(2) NANA Regional Corporation has taken the approach that it will not pursue grants and contracts that are of a "service-delivery" nature and identified under Public Law 93-638. Kotzebue Village Corporation has allied itself with the same idea. Remember that they see this as the ideal situation because Mauneluk Association is in existence to cater to this type of service delivery system.

(3) The member villages are compatible with Mauneluk Association's philosophy to develop, plan, and evaluate new or existing programs and so far there have been no factious groups to interfere.