Before traveling, a man in the musicians union must pay a heavy tax to travel. But there are certain specific conditions which those rules and regulations are established to protect, and wherever they exist they are established by the majority of their membership. I can conceive of their being established in certain instances whereby they may be in the best interests of the membership. But I think, in general, that that would be a very rare instance, because the membership is the one who establishes these rules and regulations.

Mr. SCANLON. That is done merely to stop theater owners, who hire regular orchestras in their pits, from bringing in big-name bands, as they are called, on a tour, and putting regular people out of work. Otherwise the regular orchestras would not have steady positions and would not be allowed to work while these traveling bands were playing for a week and taking their places. The regular musicians could not go anywhere else to work.

Mr. HADDOCK. That is right.

Mr. SCANLON. Therefore, under these contracts drawn up by the theatrical agent there is included a provision whereby the regular musicians are paid for the week they are not working. I believe they have to report every day and stand there idle, if I am informed rightly.

Mr. HADDOCK. That is correct. On the other hand, in the actors' branch of the theatrical industry, the actors belong to local unions which are members of a national union, which in turn is a member of the parent union, the Associated Actors and Artists of America. Those members travel from local to local, and there are no restrictions. They have not found it essential to put them on. But their whole work is different from the musicians', in any event. It is a question of existing conditions, and the membership makes whatever regulations are necessary to protect the best interests of the majority of the members.

Mr. LANDIS. An example I wanted to give was of a carpenter on a defense job, working 2 months, and paying in $75 to the Carpenters' Union. Then he might move to another defense job and have to pay $75 more in another local of the same A. F. of L. It would be worked in the same way if it were a C. I. O. union.

Mr. HADDOCK. I do not know all the conditions, but I do know something about this transferring of membership from one locality to another. The same principle applies there as it does to the Musicians' Union, of which Congressman Scanlon just spoke. Carpenters' locals are built up in localities, and a contractor from New York, we will say, will go to Texas and get a contract to do a lot of building. He will import a lot of carpenters into that area and give them work, while the people who live there-the carpenters in the local unionwill be out of work. That is the reason why those rules are so designed.

Mr. LANDIS. You mentioned the Ruml plan. Were you for the Robertson-Forand plan?

Mr. HADDOCK. I would favor it certainly over the Ruml plan. I think none of them is very well thought through or designed to meet the tax situation.

Mr. LANDIS. Of course, everybody would get forgiveness of his tax under either plan, which means the little fellow the same as the big fellow.

Mr. HADDOCK. That is right.

Mr. LANDIS. I myself was for the Robertson-Forand plan.

Mr. HADDOCK. I am very frankly of the opinion that this forgiveness does not mean forgiveness for the little fellow but actually means that he is going to pay a much larger tax in the end.

Mr. LANDIS. Are you in favor of pay-as-you-go?

Mr. HADDOCK. Pay-as-you-go is something entirely different from the forgiveness plan.

Mr. LANDIS. You are for it?

Mr. HADDOCK. Oh, yes; I think it is a crime that we have not had it for many years. But, again, the forgiving of taxes does not mean that that money will not be paid. Somebody is going to pay those taxes that are forgiven, and it is going to be the little fellow, not the big fellow, who is going to pay the taxes.

Mr. LANDIS. I believe you know something about the closed shop? Mr. HADDOCK. Oh, yes; I am quite familiar with it.

Mr. LANDIS. I think it would be well to have you state something about it for the record at this point. It is not connected with the bill, but I thought it might be well to have you state something about it for the benefit of labor and the public. Give us some of the advantages of the closed shop.

Mr. HADDOCK. The principal advantage of any closed shop-and this is, in my opinion, the principal advantage is that it stabilizes the labor organization and makes for harmonious relations with the employer. I do not know of any case where a closed shop has been put into effect, and honestly accepted by management, where stabilized labor relations have not grown out of it and both management and labor have got along harmoniously as a result of that one provision. Where a closed shop does not exist, the employers almost invariably are attempting to bring nonunion elements into their organization and into their employ, which in effect undermines the union and causes it to take actions and do things which it ordinarily would not do. Just for example, the rules and regulations of a union have given the same set of working rules and regulations in a contract to work under. A union representative will enforce infinitely more strictly those rules and regulations where a closed shop does not exist, and usually the strict interpretation of those rules and regulations runs up against situations that need some relaxation. Where a closed shop does not exist, if I were interpreting the contract and enforcing the contract, I assure you that I would certainly be much more harsh and much more strict than where a closed shop did exist.

Mr. LANDIS. We have heard a great deal about the right to work. Now, the point is here, of course, the right to work in a closed shop. There is still another advantage in the closed shop. Assume that there was a group of 100 men working in a closed shop and that 5 fellows went in there who did not want to belong to the union. So, under the privilege, the company has a right to work 5 men with the others. Can you give us some of the advantages that those 5 men would receive?

Mr. HADDOCK. Some of the advantages those 5 men would get? Mr. LANDIS. Yes.

Mr. HADDOCK. The people who come in to work or start working where a closed shop exists, will automatically begin to receive all those benefits which the union and the members who are working in that closed shop have built up over a period of time.

Mr. LANDIS. That is right.

Mr. HADDOCK. I should like to give an example of that.

Mr. SCANLON. Further than that, in many instances when they come into a closed shop they receive an increase in pay over what they were receiving before. In many instances it is from 50 to 60 cents an hour over and above what they would have received had they not come into the closed shop. In other words, if they were working outside somewhere and then came into the closed shop, where under the agreement there was a basic pay scale of, say, $1.25 an hour, while their pay at another place might be put 70 cents an hour. That is one of the main reasons why the closed shop is a good thing for labor organizations.

There is one thing in H. R. 804 that I should like to ask a question about. That bill would prohibit aliens from belonging to trade unions or participating in the elections. Where there is no closedshop agreement, the union would have no jurisdiction and nothing to say about whom it would put to work. In other words, the employer would hire those people, and the union would not know whether they were citizens or aliens. After the company took them in, the union might take these people after the employer had hired them, and the union would be responsible and have to answer to the Department of Justice or the Department of Labor in regard to taking these people into the union, whereas the employer would have to answer to nobody. He would just hire them and put them to work. The union after that would take them in and would be responsible.

Mr. HADDOCK. As you probably know, there are a large number of aliens employed in the maritime industry. It is estimated that 50 percent of the shipping today is carried on by aliens. There is a tremendous shortage of merchant seamen today. There are ships being delayed every day because there are not enough seamen to man them. These men are becoming fewer because they are getting killed every day. It is those aliens as much as Americans who are going out and facing the torpedoes and ending up in Davy Jones' locker. The maritime unions, and particularly the seagoing maritime unions, feel very strongly about these alien men. It may be because they come in contact more with aliens, but you do not see this antipathy toward aliens that exists among shore-minded people.

Take, for instance, Fort Worth, Tex., where I come from. A person there who talked with a brogue was referred to as "one of them thar aliens' and was looked down on, even though he may not have been an alien. I think that that feeling is getting less in many sections of the country, but as far as the marine workers are concerned it just does not exist. All they want to know is, Are you a good seaman? Mr. LANDIS. Would you make just a brief comment on the Smith and Connally bills? Do they both affect you?

Mr. HADDOCK. Oh, yes. I am not prepared to make a statement

on them.

Mr. LANDIS. But you are opposed to both of them?

Mr. HADDOCK. Yes, we are opposed to both of them, and we shall make a statement with respect to both of them at another time. Mr. SCANLON. Do you have any questions, Mr. Day?

Mr. DAY. No; not at this time.

Mr. SCANLON. Mr. Haddock, in behalf of the committee I want to thank you for your very fine, comprehensive statement today. I think you have added something to our hearings, and I want to thank you for coming here.

Mr. HADDOCK. I thank you for your courtesy, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. SCANLON. The subcommittee will adjourn its meetings until next Tuesday morning at 10:30, and at that time anybody who has not been heard but who wants to be heard will be given an opportunity to make his statement.

(At 11:55 a. m. an adjournment was taken until Tuesday, May 25, 1943, at 10:30 a. m.)

TO REGULATE LABOR ORGANIZATIONS

TUESDAY, MAY 25, 1943

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

SUBCOMMITTEE OF THE COMMITTEE ON LABOR,

Washington, D. C.

The subcommittee met at 10:30 a. m., pursuant to adjournment, Hon. Thomas E. Scanlon, chairman of the subcommittee, presiding. Mr. SCANLON. The subcommittee will come to order. The first witness this morning will be Mr. Russ Nixon, Washington representative of the United Electrical, Radio, and Machine Workers of America.

STATEMENT OF RUSS NIXON, WASHINGTON REPRESENTATIVE, UNITED ELECTRICAL, RADIO, AND MACHINE WORKERS OF AMERICA, CONGRESS OF INDUSTRIAL ORGANIZATIONS

Mr. SCANLON. Please give your full name and address to the reporter, Mr. Nixon.

Mr. NIXON. Mr. Chairman and gentlemen, I am Russ Nixon. I am the Washington representative of the United Electrical, Radio, and Machine Workers of America, whose local address is 1029 Vermont Avenue NW., Washington, D. C.

Mr. SCANLON. You may proceed, Mr. Nixon.

Mr. NIXON. The United Electrical, Radio, and Machine Workers of America, C. I. O., which I represent, is a union consisting of approximately 500,000 war workers. I come here representing them, obviously to state the unequivocal opposition of this union to the so-called Landis bill, H. R. 1483, and the so-called Woodruff bill, H. R. 804. In our judgment, these two measures take their place with a good number of other measures before the Congress and before other committees of the Congress and which comprise a vigorous, vicious, reactionary offensive against the organized working people of this country. It is our very considered opinion that the introduction of this type of legislation disrupts the basic, essential unity of the people of this Nation at this time, because the disruption of the unity of the Nation hinders the war effort.

The so-called Woodruff bill, as you all know, prohibits aliens from holding any office in, or their representing or their participating in the democratic processes of any labor organization. This proposal is in flagrant violation of the basic principles of democratic tradeunion organization, which involves giving to every worker within an industry or within the jurisdiction of the union an unhindered and equal opportunity to join the union and to participate in the determinations and activities of that union. Obviously the trade-union

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