It just seems to me, and perhaps you would like to comment on this, that the administration bill does not take into consideration the tremendous changes occurring in the country, the shift of population, the movement west, and everything else.

I was wondering now, how can these States, that have to practically change their constitutions and everything else, keep pace with the program that you have presented to get immediate help?

You say you want to get started right now. I think everybody here wants to get started right now. But if these States are going to have to engage in very prolonged delays and court tests and constitutional changes and legislative changes, do you think that we really can get started right now under your concept?

Mr. FLEMMING. I don't accept your assumption. I don't think there is a single State that by legislative action could not get ready to participate in this program.

Mr. FRELINGHUYSEN. If I might intervene on that, the Democrats have been in control of Congress for the last 4 years and they have come up with a proposal backed by both Republicans and Democrats which is far more modest than H.Ř. 22, and we have failed to get any passage. So we still have a practical problem of agreeing on something and getting it through.

In spite of the fact that the Democrats should know all the answersthey give the impression that they do we have had difficulty in this

area.

What we have come up with has not been based on the President's recommendation.

Mr. THOMPSON. One of the chief difficulties has been that those of you who introduced the President's own legislaiton sat in this very committee room and voted against it when we offered it to you. I think that these common goals that the Secretary speaks about are lovely things and I hope we get to them. I think we had better terminate this on the political note that has been injected and, Mr. Secretary, it is my understanding that you will be available on Tuesday?

Mr. FLEMMING. That is right; Tuesday morning.

Mr. THOMPSON. And Commissioner Derthick, would you be able to return?

Mr. DERTHICK. Yes, sir; I shall be glad to.

Mr. THOMPSON. We would like to thank you very, very much for coming. We are all as interested in our ideas as you are in yours, and this generates a little bit of heat now and then.

But we do have some common goals.

Mr. FLEMMING. I appreciate very much the opportunity and appreciate very much the way in which the hearing has proceeded. Mr. THOMPSON. Thank you.

The committee will adjourn until 10 a.m., tomorrow, when it will sit jointly with the Elliott subcommittee to discuss the operation of the National Defense Education Act.

Thank you.

(Whereupon, at 12:30 p.m., the subcommittee was recessed, to reconvene at 10 a.m., Thursday, February 19, 1959.)

SCHOOL SUPPORT ACT OF 1959

TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 24, 1959

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES,

SUBCOMMITTEE ON GENERAL EDUCATION, OF THE

COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND LABOR, Washington, D.C. The subcommittee met at 10:10 a.m., pursuant to recess, in room 429, House Office Building, Hon. Cleveland M. Bailey (chairman of the subcommittee) presiding.

Present: Representatives Bailey, Thompson, Udall, Brademas, Frelinghuysen.

Present also: Representatives Wier, Elliott, Green.

Staff members present: Fred G. Hussey, clerk, full committee; Melvin W. Sneed, minority clerk; Russell C. Derrickson, investigator, full committee; and Robert E. McCord, clerk, subcommittee.

Mr. BAILEY. The subcommittee will be in order.

The committee met last week to hear the Secretary of Health, Education, and Welfare explain the administration's proposals for school legislation. We were unable to complete the presentation and we have asked Dr. Derthick, the Federal Commissioner of Education, to come in this morning and enlarge on the comments of the Secretary on the legislation and give the committee members an opportunity to find out just what is contained in the administration's approach.

Mr. Derthick, will you proceed with your statement? If you have any additional members here who have not been introduced to the committee, you might introduce them.

STATEMENT OF L. G. DERTHICK, COMMISSIONER OF EDUCATION, ACCOMPANIED BY ELLIOT RICHARDSON, ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR LEGISLATION; RALPH C. M. FLYNT, ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER FOR LEGISLATIVE SERVICES; HERBERT S. CONRAD, DIRECTOR, EDUCATIONAL SERVICES BRANCH, DIVISION OF STATISTICS AND RESEARCH SERVICES; AND SIDNEY A. SAPERSTEIN, LEGISLATIVE ATTORNEY, OFFICE OF GENERAL COUNSEL, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH, EDUCATION, AND WELFARE

Mr. DERTHICK. Mr. Chairman, certainly it is nice to be back, and I am very happy to be back.

I would like to say, Mr. Chairman, that Secretary Flemming would like to come back a few minutes tomorrow. As you know, he wanted to come today, but he was called before the Appropriations Committee; and if he could come back and make himself available for any further

questions and for questions that maybe some committee members might have who were not here the other day, Wednesday, he would be very pleased, if he could do that tomorrow.

Mr. BAILEY. May the Chair inquire of the clerk, do we have a regular schedule for tomorrow?

Mr. McCORD. We do, sir. Dr. Fuller is our scheduled witness for tomorrow. Dr. Fuller indicated that his testimony would take up the entire session, but the schedule in the House is light this week. If I read the Congressional Record correctly, there is nothing coming up tomorrow so I think if the committee could not conclude Dr. Fuller's testimony in the morning, there would be no difficulty in having an afternoon session to finish up with him.

Mr. BAILEY. Then we will hear the Secretary for a few minutes at tomorrow's session of the committee.

You may proceed, Doctor.

Dr. DERTHICK. My name is Lawrence G. Derthick. I am U.S. Commissioner of Education, Office of Education, Department of Health, Education, and Welfare.

Mr. Chairman, and members of the committee, I am indeed gratified to have the opportunity to appear before your committee which is concerned with the problem of needed classrooms, which is so vital to education at this time and consequently to the welfare of our Nation.

INTRODUCTION

The American people believe in education. They believe that education is vital to our democracy, essential for industry and economic sufficiency, and basic to the development of our human resources. Education through the high school should be free and universal. It should prepare youth to be self-controlled and participating members of, and contributors to, our social and economic order. Education should lead youth to appreciate and aspire to the higher things of life and should assist youth in developing the skills and abilities needed by their communities and the Nation.

A modern educational program cannot be conducted without suitable plant and facilities. The school plant serves as a protective shelter and as an educational tool. The planning of educational housing should share with business and industrial facilities the fruits of dramatic progress in acoustical and visual engineering and functional design. In short the plant and facilities should provide proper conditions for learning.

The teacher and student need proper tools and facilities if all pupils are to make optimum educational progress. Each existing and planned school plant should meet the following basic criteria:

(1) Safeguard the lives and bodies of pupils and teachers against physical hazards;

(2) Provide ample protection for the health of the students; (3) Provide adequate space and facilities properly arranged for the current and anticipated curricular programs;

(4) Be sufficiently flexible to permit functional adaptation to an ever-changing educational program;

(5) Be economical in original cost and operation, and contribute to the operation of an economical program of instruction;

(6) Have appealing aesthetic values for pupils and teachers; and

(7) Be properly located on an adequate site and designed to permit expansion to care for anticipated increases in enrollment.

SCHOOL PLANT DEVELOPMENT

Education is dynamic. The school plant must be adaptable to a changing program. Nostalgic recollections of "the little red schoolhouse" fail to recall its weaknesses, such as shelter without adequate educational facilities, and a low level of basic comfort. It is no more logical to go back to "the little red schoolhouse" or the village school with its boxlike cubicles than it is to revert to oxcart travel. Presentday education, no less than present-day industry and commerce, requires modern facilities and conveniences.

Current school construction lags behind national needs. There are several reasons for this current lag. School plant construction in the middle and late twenties was, if measured in 1958 dollars, an enormous undertaking, comparing favorably with the programs of the early fifties. However, during the depression decade of the thirties, school construction dropped to a low level. In several years of this decade, less than $100 million a year was expended for public elementary and secondary school construction, including some Federal assistance.

The onset of the Second World War made it difficult to obtain materials and labor for new construction and even for proper maintenance. As a result, school construction dropped during World War II to about one-tenth of the level of 1924 and 1925, and the deterioration of existing facilities was accelerated. During this period capital outlay dropped to about 2 percent of current total school expenditures. During the latter part of the decade of 1940-50 school enrollments increased materially as a result of the increasing birth rate. Hence the schools entered the decade of 1950-60 with a substantial backlog of need, which has not yet been eradicated. The advent of hostilities in Korea brought about a lag which further aggravated this backlog.

SOME FACTORS GOVERNING CURRENT SCHOOL PLANT NEEDS

While enrollment increases account for a large proportion of the need to augment classroom facilities in public elementary and secondary schools, there are many other factors which contribute to the total school plant need.

The reorganization of school districts is one of these factors. Many States are now working on one or more types of school district reorganization. These reorganizations very often affect the location of schools and in many cases call for added school plant construction at the new centers.

The changing school curriculum is an important factor in school plant needs. More attention is being given to offerings in physical education and creative work both in the elementary and secondary schools. The present-day school program demands science and langauge laboratories, new and larger shops, audiovisual facilities and the like. These are not to be considered frills for they have become regular parts of the elementary and secondary school programs.