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gomery and so on, collect a total tax dollar, and the largest portion of that, from 75 to 69 percent is allotted to its schools.

In the city of Philadelphia of the total tax dollar only 29 percent goes to its schools.

Senator CLARK. I think that is a shocking figure, and I have not seen it before. I am glad you called it to our attention.

Miss PINCUS. Well, it is a fact. Senator Clark, perhaps when you were mayor of Philadelphia you were partially responsible for this. Senator CLARK. I can only point out that while I was a member of the board of education during the 2 years I was controller, and therefore unable to fight for more money and for a better school system, but as soon as I was elected Mayor I was kicked off the school board, and no longer had an opportunity to deal with the educational problem. This is perhaps merely an excuse.


Miss PINCUS. Yes, sir. Well, it is not an excuse. It is the picture of the municipal overburden where two groups must fight each other, and if you have two good fighters like Senator Clark, then Mayor Clark of Philadelphia, and Mayor Dilworth of Philadelphia, both of them with imagination and verve and ideas, as opposed to a conservative board of education-and I am not trying to get in right with


Senator CLARK. You know I love all this, Miss Pincus, but let's come to your recommendations.

Miss PINCUS. The recommendation is that the Board of Education-the schools haven't received a fair share, but I don't know if it is a proper share that is needed to solve the problems of Philadelphia schools.

Senator CLARK. I think this is clear and true, but there is not much that the Senate of the United States can do about it.

Miss PINCUS. No, there isn't. There is something that does affect the whole of the United States, and that is that the influx of population, the in-migration of population has been such that we have in Philadelphia, as we have in all large cities, a large group of relatively new citizens, not new citizens but newcomers to the city, who use up 45 percent of the municipal tax dollar and contribute but 6 percent of it, and the schools have to share the burden, and these are the people who come from Alabama, from Mississippi, from other parts of Pennsylvania, from anywhere, but the burden falls on the big city schools, and the peculiar representation in the State legislature is so constituted that the big city does not get much help there, and if it does not get it from the Federal Government, we will be in a real


Senator CLARK. What you say I am in complete accord with. I notice that you don't take any particualr position with respect to S. 580 in your testimony, is that correct?

Miss PINCUS. Not a particular position, except the position that that bill would help education everywhere, and we hope that some of it. would fall to us, particularly that portion of your bill which is for special problems of the culturally deprived.


Senator CLARK. Has it been your experience, Miss Pincus, that in the schools of Philadelphia we have a very real and serious dropout problem?

Miss PINCUS. Yes.

Senator CLARK. And have you not also noticed that just as a citizen rather than as president of the Philadelphia Federation of Teachers, an enormous amount of our local unemployment results from young people not being able to get jobs?

Miss PINCUS. Fifty percent of the 16 to 21 age group that is out of school is unemployed, and in the dominantly Negro communities it is 70 percent.

Senator CLARK. Therefore the provisions in S. 580 which would encourage a decrease in the school dropout rate would provide training for those who are slow in coming along in the educational process, and would up-grade, or technical vocational facilities would be of susbtantial benefit in Philadelphia, would it not?

Miss PINCUS. Yes, it would, but I think it will be even more substantially beneficial if we could start at the kindergarten or prekindergarten level.

If Philadelphia had the funds to carry out a suggestion that the Philadelphia Federation recently made to our board of education to institute a program of massive retaliation against the cultural deprivation that exists in so many areas of big cities.

Senator CLARK. This cannot be done without substantial additional funds, can it?

Miss PINCUS. It cannot. It would take millions of dollars. To reduce class size, for instance, from 40 to 25-40 is the present condition in Philadelphia, to reduce it from 40 to 25 would cost about $25 million a year. Just to reduce class size by 1 would cost $1.5 million.

Senator CLARK. In your opinion is there any prospect in the foreseeable future that either local or State funds will be made available in adequate amounts to remedy these deficiencies in the Philadelphia school system?

Miss PINCUS. At the present moment there is nothing coming to Philadelphia. We now have a thousand vacancies in the city of Philadelphia filled by unqualified, uncertificated teacher substitutes.


At the rate we are going now that number will be 2,000 in September. Senator CLARK. Now do you see any prospect of getting the money from either the school district or the State to remedy these critical deficiencies of which you have been talking?

Miss PINCUS. There is no prospect at all. The minuscule increase in State aid that may come to Philadelphia in spite of the 5-percent sales tax-you see Philadelphia put $100 million into the kitty and we get $30 million back. In other words, they collect $100 million from the sales tax, from the city of Philadelphia, which is presumably for education, and $30 million of that comes back to the city.

Senator CLARK. When you say "they" you mean the State?
Miss PINCUS. The State, that is right.

Senator CLARK. So the State takes $100 million out of Philadelphia?

Miss PINCUS. Right.

Senator CLARK. For education?

Miss PINCUS. Right.

Senator CLARK. And it turns back $30 million?

Miss PINCUS. That is the formula. That is the way it operates at the present time.

Senator CLARK. So that unless we can change the whole philosophy in the State of Pennsylvania, and incidentally you would need a new constitution and reapportionment.

Miss PINCUS. Yes.

Senator CLARK. There is no immediate prospect that the State will give Philadelphia the money it needs to rehabilitate its education. system, is there?

Miss PINCUS. None at all.

Senator CLARK. If the State does not do it, do you have any thought that perhaps it can be done by the local school district?

Miss PINCUS. No, sir, because we again have to go to the State for permission to tax ourselves.

Senator CLARK. As I understand it, the State is refusing to give that permission.

Miss PINCUS. Right.

Senator CLARK. For even a limited number of taxes, the limited number of taxes which the city board has requested?


Miss PINCUS. That is right. A most ridiculous, dramatic event, if you can call it that it would be low comedy I think rather than dramatic-is presently going on in Harrisburg.

When Philadelphia sent in a tax package that would produce $25 million, produced entirely on taxes levied on citizens in Philadelphia for use of Philadelphia schools, and that tax package was referred to a ways and means committee and kept bottled up until the Governor got his 5 percent sales tax through, then he picked from the Philadelphia tax package those taxes that would be most productive, like the tax on liquor and so on and so forth, and after he got those through for the State of Pennsylvania, Philadelphia has left holding an empty bag.

Senator CLARK. So as a practical matter, Miss Pincus, unless the fund needed to rehabilitate the Philadelphia school system comes from the Federal Government, they are not going to get it at all as far as you and I can see, is that correct?

Miss PINCUS. Right, and there are 100,000 children in the schools of Philadelphia today who are not being properly educated, who are not being educated sufficiently to be able to function within the economy of our country, not even now.

Senator CLARK. My understanding is there are presently 250,000 children in the public school system of Philadelphia.

Miss PINCUS. 257,000, and we are going to have an increase of 11,000 in September.

Senator CLARK. More than 50 percent of that number are Negroes, are they not?

Miss PINCUS. 53 percent.

Senator CLARK. Do you happen to know how many children there are in parochial schools in Philadelphia?

Miss PINCUS. About 140,000.

Senator CLARK. Do you happen to know the percentage of Negro children?

Miss PINCUS. Very small, less than 6 percent.

Senator CLARK. Thank you very much, Miss Pincus. This is very helpful testimony.

Miss PINCUS. Thank you. May I say one thing, Senator Clark? Senator CLARK. Yes, indeed.

Miss PINCUS. I will say it fast. I consider you and all the members that sit on this committee as friendly, aware, informed and concerned about Federal aid to education.

I am less fussy than Dr. Hill about whether Federal aid is charity. I don't care whether you use the root word charity or the Greek word love or the Hebrew justice. I will take it any way it comes, because we need it so desperately.

For that reason I wish we had time to indulge in a philosophical discussion on walls, walls, w-a-1-1-s.

Senator CLARK. I wish we did, too, but we haven't.

Miss PINCUS. We haven't and I am not going to. I would wonder how many of those walls have been scaled.

I thought first of the wall at Jericho that came down. I guess it was divine inspiration, but I think there is divine inspirationSenator CLARK. Don't forget in Jericho people had a will to work. Miss PINCUS. Well, don't we have a will to work?

Senator CLARK. I wonder.

Miss PINCUS. I think some of you have. Those walls got in my way when I wanted to prepare the testimony for this.

I thought of the twin walls of racial pressures and the political pressures of all kinds, and I wondered whether religious pressures, whether men of good will as represented on this committee could not work out something, not in the glaring light of the public, but something somewhere which would reduce those racial and religious pressures to a point where we could achieve Federal aid to education. Senator CLARK. We are going to try, Miss Pincus, that is all I can say. Now unfortunately we have other witnesses who must be heard. Thank you ever so much.

Miss PINCUS. Thank you.

Senator CLARK. I understand that Mr. Donald White has agreed to come back tomorrow at 2 p.m., and I am very grateful to him for that suggestion.

Our next witness will be Mr. William A. Rich, member of the Legislative Committee of the District of Columbia Congress of Parents and Teachers.

Mr. Rich, we are happy to have you here, and we will put your testimony in the record in full. I note that it is brief, and perhaps you can just summarize it.


(The prepared statement of Mr. Rich follows:)


My name is William A. Rich and I appear before this committee today representing the District of Columbia Congress of Parents and Teachers, as a member of its legislative committee.

I shall testify particularly on the provisions of title IV, part D, section 461 (d), section 462(f), and section 463 of S. 580, which provisions proposes to amend Public Laws 815 and 874 so that the District of Columbia will be included under the provisions of those laws. The enactment of this legislation would remove the inequities of Public Laws 815 and 874 which have existed since this legislation has been in effect. Had the District of Columbia been included in this legislation from its inception, the schools of the District of Columbia would have received approximately $50 million, which moneys would have been used to alleviate the financial plight of the schools of this Nation's Capital.

It is urged that the provisions of sections 461 (d) and 462 (f) be made effective July 1, 1963, and I ask that section 463 be amended accordingly. There is no logical reason why the District of Columbia should not be included under such legislation at once. The equities of the case are apparent and the need is, without a doubt, obvious.

It is approximately 1 year ago on June 12, 1962, that I testified before this subcommittee regarding the very same matter when hearings on S. 2830 were held. I respectfully refer the chairman and members of this committee to the transcript of that testimony which well documents the case for this legislation.

I want to take this opportunity to thank this committee and the Senate for its approval of S. 2830 during the 87th Congress.

The approval and enactment of the sections which I have referred to will be a great step forward and a most historical one, for then we of the District of Columbia shall have gained the further recognition as equal citizens of the Uinted States and its territories.


Mr. RICH. Yes, Mr. Chairman. I will not read the testimony. You have it. You know briefly what we are asking is the inclusion of the District of Columbia under the impacted aid provisions, sections 462 (f) and 461 (d). We also ask of course that the District of Columbia be included effective July 1, 1963.

Now I want to say this that if the bill, this omnibus bill is by any chance broken up, and the impacted aid measure should come out as an independent measure, I certainly hope that members of this committe will see to it that the District of Columbia is included in that


Senator CLARK. As a former member of the Senate Committee for the District, I have some knowledge of the critical condition of the school system here.

As you know, Senator Morse, the chairman of the subcommittee is keenly aware of the problems of the District. I think the situation is far more critical than most Members of the Senate or the Congress are willing to admit, and I share wholeheartedly in your recommendations, and will do everything possible personally to see that they are incorporated in the bill.

Mr. RICH. Senator Clark, I certainly want to thank you for your kind expression along those lines.

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