out at that time did not get a square deal at the hands of that commission.

Mr. CORNISH. I would not engage in an argument from that viewpoint. The Senator has his own views. The point is that all of these persons had their day in court. If this committee was ever to hold hearings on the reopening of the citizenship rolls, that would be its privilege, but the odds would be tremendous.

The CHAIRMAN. The Congress of the United States is the last court to which the Indians may apply to secure their legislation or to secure their rights. After the Congress has acted, then anything it has passed in the form of law may be taken to the courts for interpretation and final adjudication. But the Congress has always been and will always be open to petitions of citizens for the redress of any grievances they have or may think they have. No one Congress can bind any future Congress; that is likewise true.

Because Governor Johnson is present, I am going to ask him to state his attitude of his people in regard not only to this bill but to similar bills. You can make your statement as brief as you like, but I should like to have the record show your attitude and the attitude of the Chickasaws.

STATEMENT OF HON. DOUGLAS H. JOHNSTON, GOVERNOR OF THE CHICKASAW NATION OF INDIANS

Governor JOHNSTON. Mr. Chairman, the Chickasaws have been opposed to opening the rolls to anyone for citizenship.

The CHAIRMAN. Thank you.

Are there any further statements that anyone else desires to make in opposition?

If not, we shall now have the statement of Robert Fix.

STATEMENT OF ROBERT FIX

The CHAIRMAN. What is your full name, Mr. Fix?

Mr. Fix. Robert Fix.

The CHAIRMAN. You have here a bill proposing to place yourself and certain members of your family on the official rolls of the Choctaw Nation?

Mr. Fix. Yes.

The CHAIRMAN. You are the person for whom the bill was introduced, are you not?

Mr. Fix. Yes; I am Robert Fix myself.

The CHAIRMAN. All right. You may proceed.

Mr. Fix. Gentlemen of the committee, I agree with Mr. Stigler and also with the Chief of our tribe. When I say, "our tribe", I say it, because they moved my ancestors into that country. The Dawes Commission, as they talk about it, had the right to determine the rights of those Indians down there.

I agree with them that there were hundreds of persons who went there and made application who had no rights. I admit that. But who put them up to it? One crooked bunch of lawyers gets you into trouble, and it takes another crooked bunch to get you out, for a big salary. I might just as well say it and get it over with.

It isn't only the Indians that try to play crooked, but also these crooks that misrepresent everybody.

Senator CHAVEZ. Tell us why you think you should be on the rolls. Mr. Fix. I am telling you this for the simple reason that on March 16, 1850, they moved my grandparents-my mother's parents-into that country. Here is a removal record of these Choctaw people who were removed into that country. I have it right here.

The Department and also the Dawes Commission bitterly denied that and turned this case down on the grounds that they failed to identify. That they did because they covered up the records. It is my understanding that anybody who testified falsely or covered up records before that Dawes Commission is still liable in any legal

course.

Senator CHAVEZ. You had better identify that a little more. What is it?

Mr. Fix. That is the muster roll of the removal records.

Senator CHAVEZ. Is your grandmother's name listed in the roll? Mr. Fix. They didn't list children by their names. That is what I wanted to call your attention to. You can see here by these records that they just listed the names of the heads of the families and not the children at all.

Senator CHAVEZ. Is the head of your family listed?

Mr. Fix. Yes; T. G. Patten.

Senator CHAVEZ. Isn't that "e-n"?

Mr. Fix. It is "t-o-n" in another record that I have.
Senator CHAVEZ. Whose name is this here [indicating]?

Mr. Fix. That is the Acting Secretary's.

Senator CHAVEZ. Do you want to insert that in the record? Mr. Fix. Yes; I want to insert that in the record. That is one of the first removal records. That reads as follows:

Muster Roll of two Choctaw families who emigrated from the old Choctaw country east of the Mississippi River to the Choctaw Nation west of the State of Arkansas, having crossed the western boundary of said State on the 16th day of March, 1850, in charge of George W. Foster.

CHOCTAW AGENCY, March 18, 1850 (mark for a seal.)

WILLIAM WILSON.

I certify that I authorized William Wilson to enroll the above-named families.

On the reverse side it reads:

JOHN DRENNEN, Acting Supt. N. T.

Muster roll of 10 Choctaws. Arrived west, 16 Mch. 1850. Transportation paid and approved. Drennen 2 April 1850.

Senator CHAVEZ. Who was T. G. Patten?

Mr. Fix. T. G. Patten was a Choctaw Indian.

Senator CHAVEZ. But what was he to you?

Mr. Fix. He was my mother's mother's father.
Senator CHAVEZ. Your great-grandfather?

Mr. Fix. Yes; he was my great-grandfather.

Now, the question arose in the Department as to whether or not I was one of those Pattens. Grady Lewis and I went over this thing quite extensively.

The CHAIRMAN. Who was Grady Lewis?

Mr. Fix. He was attorney for the Choctaws right here in front of this committee, and he admitted before this committee that where a Choctaw woman married a white man, he had to give a bond, and it was so bad that they even had to go to work and make them give thousands of dollars of bonds, because these white men were marrying these women for the purpose of swindling them out of their property.

We have got hundreds of white people right down there today on those rolls who are not entitled to be there, which I am going to show in a few minutes. They are the ones who are opposed to reopening these rolls, not the Indians. The true Indians are not trying to beat one another.

Here is a record of James Standley, who received this property in Mississippi. Anyhow, this is in the record here put out by the Interior Department. Under the heading "Names of witnesses" there are the following names: Nicholas Cochanauer and Hiram Vinson, and the record says, "both are on Red river." Then, under remarks, it says:

That T. G. Patten states he received no benefit under the treaty of 1850 for the place where his mother resided, section 23°°, township 17'', range one east. That James Standley, a white man, sold the place, and applied the proceeds to his own benefit.

The CHAIRMAN. If I may interrupt you, I should like to ask Mr. Stigler a question.

Mr. Stigler, I understood you to say a few minutes ago that the children of the Chickasaws and the Choctaws that have been born in the last few years are not now on the rolls; is that correct? Mr. STIGLER. That is correct; since 1906.

The CHAIRMAN. Approximately how many of those children are there in Oklahoma who would obviously be entitled to enrollment in the event the rolls were opened?

Mr. STIGLER. It is hard to estimate, Mr. Chairman, but I should estimate that 25,000 or 30,000. There would be that many applicants. I myself have two that I would like to get on the rolls.

The CHAIRMAN. I want the record to show that Mr. Fix is not alone in being off the rolls; that if the children of the full-bloodsand if I am in error, I want the record to show it-that have been born since the rolls were closed are not on the rolls; and that unless legislation is enacted, they cannot get on the rolls and participate in further distribution of property in the event the property is found to have value. Is that a correct statement?

Mr. STIGLER. That is correct.

The CHAIRMAN. That places Mr. Fix on exactly the same basis as the full-blodded children born since the rolls were closed.

Mr. Fix. I want to say this right here, if I may be permitted to do so, and that is that that is true, and if Congress wishes to or

the tribe wishes to, I am perfectly willing to withdraw this bill cr any other bill and to have it read that all of them should be put on the rolls. I am perfectly agreeable to that. I am for it, but I am not for putting on the rolls the children of those white men who swindled these children out of their rights. That is what I am getting at.

The CHAIRMAN. No doubt there is some justification for your remarks, Mr. Fix.

Mr. Fix. Here is a record that states that T. G. Patten-that this fellow took the money. He sold the property, he thought, but it is still reserved in Mississippi, and no title has ever been issued until here a couple of years ago they issued it in the Indian Bureau to James Standley. He is a white man; he is not an Indian at all, but he is step-father to the Patten children. Here is this record right here.

Senator CHAVEZ. What is that?

Mr. Fix. That is this fellow's record-P. G. Patten's record, from where he was removed-the section of land where he was removed from.

Senator CHAVEZ. What is that paper?

Mr. Fix. That is part of the removal records of when they moved him from he was moved from.

In relation to that, I want to say at this time that they claim that we lost this property in Mississippi through adverse possession. I want to ask any attorney or court how an Indian can lose his property through adverse possession when it is held under an article of treaty for a specific person in a trust patent way. I don't think that he can.

Now, to tell the truth of it, the Government can take it all right, as the decision of the Supreme Court says that Congress can make any law or take any property from the Indians, but it must compensate them for it. If the Government had sold this property or disposed of it, then the heirs must be compensated for it.

I am not trying to tell this committee here which way to go on this case. I have here a straight appropriation bill which will straighten it up. If the committee wants to pass out a bill for straight appropriation, it is perfectly agreeable to me. I am not caring anything about the rolls, as long as I get a decent compensation for my just birthright and my blood right.

According to the United States Code of Laws, title 25, volume 44, in 1830, when those Indians were removed, the number of the law being 174, the President had supervision over all Indians moved west of the Mississippi River, which gave him the right to exchange their property from Mississippi to Oklahoma.

That has never been done in this case.

I do not say that the tribe or the Dawes Commission is really to blame, to a certain extent, for the simple reason that T. G. Patten's daughter, Elizabeth, married a man by the name of Fultz, who was a white man, who was in the Indian Territory. Now, the Government saw that when it got into the war it wanted men to shoot down like dogs-they are never satisfied-so they took him up into Kansas into the war, and he was killed under General Curtis, without being given any chance to prove who he was. The reason was that he was taken

a prisoner by the Confederate Army, and he stole their clothes to get back to his own company, and because he had their clothes on, why, they shot him, thinking he was a spy.

Later, at the investigation, they found that they had killed one of their own men.

Well, then, Elizabeth Fultz, his wife, took her three children— they were Perry and Will Fultz, and Susan Elizabeth, who is my mother-to Kansas with her, where she applied for a pension-a widow's pension. They even murdered her after they got her up there, and then tried to beat those children out of their pension.

It took this fellow that murdered her 10 years to say that he murdered their mother, and on his dying bed he said to these children that he had murdered their mother.

Now, the tribe left those children up there in Kansas, which I will admit. The Government left them up there in Kansas to starve to death, you might as well say. They made it, yes; and when they got old enough, they return back into the Choctaw Nation, and naturally the Indians didn't know just exactly who they were—all of them or a bunch of them.

There was one old Indian woman who knew these children and said exactly who they were and said, "I have known them ever since 1833."

Now, gentlemen, let us get back and see whether this old woman knew who they were or not, for it was those old Indians who were to identify the Indians who belonged on these rolls.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Fix, it is obvious that we cannot conclude the hearings this morning, and there are a number of other persons present. I should like to hear just what their interests are, so that we can plan for another meeting.

The Senate convenes at 12 o'clock, which is in 5 minutes, so we shall have to close this part of the hearing at this time. It is not completed; it will be finished at a later date, and you will be given a chance at that time to finish your statement.

The committee will stand in recess until the call of the Chair 1 week from Monday, if not before.

(At 12 noon the hearing was recessed subject to the call of the chairman.)