MILITARY SERVICE

Mexican border and World War I, 31⁄2 years, 14 months in Europe. World War II, 2 years in Europe, 18 months thereof with 3d Infantry Division. Served in Africa, Italy, France, Germany, and Austria. Decorated on Anzio beachhead, Italy, Bronze Star; wounded, northern France, and awarded the Purple Heart. Awarded Oak Leaf Cluster to Bronze Star for meritorious service in combat. Discharged a lieutenant colonel.

PUBLIC SERVICE

Past commander, World War Post No. 907, Veterans of Foreign Wars. Past member of the executive committee, American Legion Post No. 1; past chairman, national committee, Veterans of Foreign Wars to study improvement of military justice.

Past president, Oregon Conference of Social Work; Portland Zoological Society; National Council of Juvenile Court Judges. Past chairman, legal division, Community Chest; past member of speakers' committee, March of Dimes. Past board member, Child Guidance Clinic; Oregon Tuberculosis Association; Council of Social Agencies. Past chairman, Governor's committee, Intermediate Penal Institution.

Past member of the board of the United Community Defense Services. Past member of the advisory committee, children's division, American Humane Association. Member of the advisory council of judges to the National Probation and Parole Association. Member President's Committee, White House Conference on Children and Youth 1960, and member of the executive committee. Senator MORSE. He can close his ears for a moment while I say this, Mr. Chairman.

Before I ever entered politics I taught law for 15 years and my specialty happened to be administration of criminal law, which caused me to do a great deal of work in the field of so-called criminal law surveys in this country, including one national survey.

I became very well acquainted with Judge Long and his work. In my judgment, if I were asked the names, based upon my knowledge of the field, of the top 10 people in the United States in the field of juvenile delinquency, Judge Long would be on that list, as would the second witness this morning, Professor Ellingston, of the University of Minnesota.

As to the second witness, Mr. Chairman, I want to make this comment. His qualifications will be found on the first page of his testimony this morning. They speak for themselves.

But he is the professor of criminal law at my law school alma mater, the University of Minnesota.

His record in the State of Minnesota in the field of juvenile delinquency has been brilliant and outstanding and he is recognized as one of the outstanding experts in the whole country in this field.

It is because of the standing of these two men that I made the special request of this committee that they be invited as witnesses, because I think it is essential that the record of the committee include the observations of these two experts on the legislation that is pending before us.

It is now my pleasure, Mr. Chairman, to present to the committee, Judge Long, of Portland.

Senator CLARK. Thank you very much, Senator Morse. I hope you will be able to participate in the hearing this morning from this side of the bench and I certainly for one appreciate your introduction of these witnesses.

Judge Long, we are very happy to have you here with us this morning. I am sure you justify all the kind things Senator Morse said about you.

Do you have a prepared statement, Judge, or are you going to talk from notes?

Judge LONG. Senator Clark, I do have a prepared statement which I forwarded to the committee, I think, 75 copies as requested.

Senator CLARK. Do you have an extra copy there, Judge?

Judge LONG. Yes, I do have. Maybe the 75 copies have not arrived, since they were only mailed last Friday.

Probably the mail system is not quite so efficient as some 45 years ago when I used to carry mail around with a little basket to deliver to the Senators.

Senator CLARK. I am going to suggest, if it is satisfactory to you, that we print your statement in full in the record and that you proceed to comment on it, stressing such parts as you think desirable. (See P..)

I am sure that your experience here on the Hill will indicate to you that the fact that there are only two Senators present, when there are seven on the subcommittee, to hear you this morning, is not particularly significant. The record will be read by all the subcommittee and by the staff, but it just doesn't seem worthwhile to sit here and read a prepared statement, when frankly I think Senator Morse and I would like to pick your brains a little bit in this entire field. Let me also say this to you before you proceed:

I am concerned about what kind of bill we should report out of this subcommittee. I think the members of the subcommittee will want to report out a bill. Our problem is whether we should report out a bill with relatively minor provisions authorizing appropriation of a relatively small amount of money to deal with the problem of training competent workers in the field of juvenile delinquency and authorizing support for pilot programs and projects in research, in order to enable us to get information which would throw further light on this still fairly obscure field of the cause and cures of juvenile delinquency. Such a bill would be supported by the administration. Or, whether we should be bolder and move into a wider area that would cost more money, probably do more good, might not get by the Senate, might not get by the House, probably would invite a veto.

That is the political problem which confronts us on this committee and I wish you would give a little thought to that as you proceed and tell us just how far and how fast you think the Federal Government should go in interjecting itself further into this field.

Judge LONG. Very well, Senator.

STATEMENT OF HON. DONALD E. LONG, JUDGE, MULTNOMAH COUNTY COURTHOUSE, PORTLAND, OREG.

Judge LONG. A number of years ago, I think it was 20 years ago, I prepared an annual report on juvenile delinquency, and entitled it, "Understanding Delinquency." And after 22 years in dealing with behavior problems in children I would now entitle my annual report, "Trying to Understand Juvenile Delinquency."

I want to say at the outset, in my opinion there is no dramatic solution to the problems of youth. I do believe firmly that the Federal

Government needs to exert some leadership to the various States and communities in pointing out ways of developing techniques, demonstration pilots, to see whether or not with the most skilled people we have now in our community we can arrive at some better way of treating the behavior problems of children.

Now, I have considered the bills before the Senate and also the bills that are in the House, Representative Green, of Oregon, her bill; and Mr. Elliott's bill, of Alabama; your bill; the bill of Mr. Javits; and Mr. Hennings' and others, and have come to the conclusion that both have merit, that both approaches have merit.

Senator CLARK. Let me interrupt you long enough to say, I do not know whether you knew it or not, but the subcommittee in the House has made some changes, largely, although not entirely technical in nature in the Elliott bill, which is more or less identical with the HillClark bill, and is reporting it out to the full committee.

Mrs. Green, from your State, is not in agreement with that and wants a somewhat more ambitious program and this should perhaps be background for you in further testimony.

Judge LONG. Yes, thank you.

In my opinion the training provision in the Green bill and in the other Senate bills is much more important than the provisions of providing for development of techniques and demonstrations. We have a severe lack of qualified personnel in the United States dealing with these problems. We need to do something about the need.

We have 3,000 juvenile courts in the United States, many of them county judges. Half of all the counties in the United States that are dealing with juvenile delinquency have no probation services what

soever.

There was a study made by the National Probation and Parole Association several years ago and I think they have previously testified that there is a need for some 15,000 probation officers dealing with these problems and assisting juvenile courts.

At that time we only had in the United States 2,100 probation officers dealing with children alone, 3,400 serving both juveniles and adults. Out of this number only 1 out of 10 completed his social work training. Many of them were qualified but it is staggering that they had not the skills and the training that they should have in my opinion in dealing with the behavior problems of the children coming to the various juvenile courts.

And that is the reason, I feel, that priority first should be given to a training program to assist the volunteer organizations to assist the States and local communities in providing under HEW an efficient program of training.

Senator CLARK. Let me interrupt you there to lead your mind into this field, and perhaps to some extent to be the Devil's advocate.

I think we would all admit the validity of the factual statement which you have made. There is an alarming shortage of qualified people within this field.

My query is to what extent will a bill at the Federal level authorizing the expenditure of a modest amount of money be effective in overcoming this situation? In other words, would we be treating the symptom instead of the disease? And is not the disease the fact that there is a shortage, in many an area in our American life, of qualified

personnel of which this field of social service work in juvenile delinquency is only one, that in a measurable degree that is due to the fact that our system of awards and punishments across the whole board of the selection of careers is a very ineffective and inefficient one?

A good deal of this has to do with compensation, but not all of it. We tend to reward on a very high level bright young men and women who go into ad ertising. We tend to penalize those who go into social work or teaching, perhaps even politics, not only in terms of monetary award, but in terms of prestige, status. A colored television engineer is held up to high praise. A social worker is thought of as a do-gooder. A politician is a fool on a stump, making a speech.

Is it going to help much in getting more people into the field of juvenile delinquency to appropriate a few million dollars for training at the Federal level?

Judge LONG. I feel that when we once reach the point of trained and skilled workers in juvenile courts, and I am speaking entirely for the juvenile court programs-I think in every area dealing with behavior, I will just leave the juvenile court for a moment I am fairly convinced that we need to meet the need of adequate staffs throughout the United States in order to meet these problems.

However, I do want to make a point of one thing, and that is that I think there has been a great lag and we need to do a great deal more, and that is in the school social worker program. I think until

we are able to reach the child, even a preschool child, and the children in their early grades in school where they have been aggressive, having been indulged, and find them with adequate school staffing of school social workers to go into the home and help the inadequate parent and disturbed parent and help the child that we can have all the demonstrations and techniques in the world, spend $10 million or $15 million a year, we are not going to reduce juvenile delinquency substantially until we try to treat the roots, until we get down to the children.

I did want to make that point, that I am not talking only of a juvenile court case. We had 600,000 cases reported several years ago and it is predicted that by 1965 we will have a million boys and girls referred to the juvenile courts and we must meet their problems adequately.

Senator CLARK. I thoroughly agree with you.

I am only pointing out that before you can train you have to recruit. And I would like to get your thinking as to how we could recruit more and better individuals, young people, as they come out of our schools and colleges into this desperately undermanned profession.

Judge LONG. I think we will have to set up some scholarships, have to help many of these young people that are interested in our field so they will be able to go on to schools. I think that is one way to do it.

I think we are going to have to help States in setting up training institutes to get a lot of these people who do not have the qualifications, briefly, but to get them stimulated and interested in the field. Senator CLARK. Do you have in your mind any distinction between the level at which this work should be done? I mean how much of this can be done at the local level, how much at the State? To what extent does the Federal Government have a legitimate interest in this

field? You know from your experience on the Hill that once you say the words "States rights" around here, a valiant band rallies around that flank and talks about Federal bureaucracies.

Judge LONG. I think it is primarily the State's responsibility and community's responsibility. However, the States and communities are not assuming their responsibility and they need the leadership of the Federal Government. I think they should participate wherever possible.

Senator CLARK. Those who disagree with you would say that that leadership should come from the grassroots of the people to force their State governments to make an effort. My own experience has been that they rarely do.

Judge LONG. My experience has been that it does not come up from the grassroots. You have got to interpret to the grassroots the need and when the people have had it interpreted they will go forward.

Senator CLARK. I am not sure my friend from Oregon would entirely agree with that.

Judge LONG. I know the time is limited and this subject is inexhaustible.

Senator CLARK. You take your time. We brought you all the way across the country to hear what you think. You take plenty of time.

Judge LONG. May I just leave the juvenile court for a minute and get into the police departments and sheriffs' departments in the United States, where we need specialized separate units dealing with children, because they are the ones that have the first contact with the delinquent boy or the delinquent girl.

Senator CLARK. Do you have such a division in Portland?
Judge LONG. Yes; we do.

Senator CLARK. Does it work pretty well?
Judge LONG. It works well.
court and the juvenile division.
the juvenile court and we try to
ing with them.

We have good liaison between the They understand the philosophy of help them and have inservice train

Half of the middle-sized communities in the United States have no such juvenile divisions and one-fourth of all communities under 10,000 people have nothing at all.

So I think we need a well-planned program under the direction of training police officers and sheriffs' officers in the techniques of handling juveniles. I think that is very important.

Now, we go further in another area of detention, not only detention in our juvenile homes but detention in our schools, State schools. Last year alone we had over 100,000 boys-mostly boys and girls, held in jails throughout the United States and any number of other facilities where they were held were totally inadequate.

We need to do a lot in the training field of correctional institutions, boys' and girls' schools; they are terrifically lagging in qualified personnel. Very few of them have psychologists, full time or part time; to get psychiatric help you usually have to go to the State hospital and those are the things I think that we need to emphasize and focus our attention on under a centralized program of direction.

Senator CLARK. Judge, if you had your way, would you confine Federal assistance to training, or would you also authorize the support of research pilot projects?