Mr. KELLEY. Senator Dominick, there are two sections of the statute involved. Under one, it appears to be perfectly clear that the services can hold an individual for treatment with his consent. The law becomes cloudy as it pertains to the statute that involves the individual who does not wish to be held for treatment. So long as the individual consents to treatment, the services can hold him beyond the point he would otherwise be eligible for discharge. Senator DOMINICK. This is true regardless of what health incident may be involved?

Mr. KELLEY. Yes, sir; I believe it is.

Senator DOMINICK. We must have some experience ratio on this, I would think, by this time.

Mr. KELLEY. I am sure we do, and I would be happy to provide that experience ratio for the record.

Senator DOMINICK. I think it might be helpful in determining what our limitations are in that regard. I would appreciate it. Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Senator HUGHES. Thany you, Senator Dominick.

Gentlemen, the hour is getting late and I have a tremendous number of questions yet. I didn't intend to get stuck in the mud here on some of these points as we did. I am going to ask that the record remain open primarily for two reasons.

No. 1, Senator Javits would like to submit questions in writing to you which can be responded to in a reasonable period of time. No. 2, we are going to be holding ongoing hearings on this subject matter and some of the questions that I had originally planned to ask today are not so critical that they can't be asked 2 or 3 weeks from now in another hearing.

Perhaps you will have much more information at that point that would enable you to give more specific answers to some of the questions.

I do have just two or three that I think are important this morning.

For a year now, Mr. Secretary, as you will recall, and some of the personnel with you, we have been asking you when you plan to carry out a worldwide survey, a substantial survey, on drug use in the services so that you would know what the extent of the problem is. According to the information I received, plans for such a survey were dropped. Is that true?

Mr. KELLEY. They haven't been dropped, Mr. Chairman, but the survey questionnaire which has been only recently examined by a number of people-myself included-contains in our judgment a number of questions that are not either precisely enough drawn or relevant to the information we seek to obtain. So, the quality of our product needs further improvement.

Senator HUGHES. I had an opportunity to see what I think that questionnaire is.

Mr. KELLEY. We have not dropped the questionnaire or the ldwide survey idea, Mr. Chairman.

tor HUGHES. Then I can say that it is still in the works? you are considering it? You don't know whether you will it or not?

Mr. KELLEY. We intend to go with a survey which would not 100 percent survey of every military member, but which would be a statistically valid sampling of military members, and I wish I could report to you that we had that survey questionnaire ready to go. We don't. It has taken us too long.

Senator HUGHES. What plans do you have to treat drug dependent persons who are children or members of the family or dependents of a military member, either in this country or in some foreign country?

Mr. KELLEY. The answer to that question is that we will treat them on a space and facilities available basis. We have, as I believe I described in my earlier appearance, we have undertaken a series of educational programs which have benefited dependent children in our overseas school system, teachers in our overseas school system, wives as well as military members, but we are not presently equipped to offer the assurance of widespread treatment of dependent members of military families who are in need of such

treatment.

Senator HUGHES. All right. I would like to ask a couple of questions of Mr. Kester. I am sure he has seen the article in the Washington Post relating to an address he made in California. I see he is smiling.

Mr. KESTER. I saw it this morning.

Senator HUGHES. I won't bother to read it or put it in the record. I have no intentions of doing that, but I would like to ask a question related to some of the responses you made. Apparently you indicated that Army studies have shown Vietnam addicts tend to be somewhat below average in intelligence. Is that a factual statement, Mr. Kester?

Mr. KESTER. It should say in education, Senator.

Senator HUGHES. Pardon?

Mr. KESTER. In education. There may be some correlation between education and intelligence.

Senator HUGHES. I haven't been aware of any study, and if you have such a study, I would certainly like to have a copy of it for the committee.

Mr. KESTER. It is not an in-depth study. These are simply the results of records kept by some of the drug rehabilitation officers we have over there. They keep data on the people coming in. They keep statistics on how many are high school graduates, how many had college, how many are high school dropouts. We find we have hardly any coming into the programs who have any education beyond high school, and we have a substantial number of high school dropouts.

Senator HUGHES. You apparently spoke to a pretty unfriendly audience, the way this article looks.

Mr. KESTER. They weren't the friendliest group I had ever seen. Senator HUGHES. Mr. Secretary, according to Reuters News Agency, Lieutenant General Robert Tabor, Department of the Assistant Secretary of Defense for Manpower and Reserve Affairs, apparently indicated that U.S. officials are now receiving more. cooperation from the South Vietnamese Government than in the

past in the controlling of substances. Can you expand on that any for the committee?

Mr. KELLEY. I would be happy to for the record, Mr. Chairman. I offered as much information as I had on that score in my earlier appearance.

Senator HUGHES. All right.

I believe, gentlemen, that is all the questions I will ask you this morning. We will submit a few questions in writing. Senator Javits asked that the record remain open to submit questions. I would like to ask his staff to cooperate to see that questions are submitted to the Secretary within 1 week's time.

We will be, as I indicated, holding further hearings. There are no scheduled dates at present. We intend to call you back and Dr. Jaffe.

I want to express to all of you the subcommittee's appreciation for your continuing cooperation. We do recognize the seriousness and difficulty of the problem you are working with. If there are ways we can be helpful to you, legislatively, I hope you will not hesitate to make recommendations to us rapidly.

If additional funding is a prerequisite, as Senator Dominick indicated, I think you will have 100 percent support certainly out of the Senate, and I would hope in the House.

Thank you very much.

The Chair is going to call a witness for whom there must be complete anonymity. Please do not turn the television cameras on Mrs. Jones.

She will be called Mrs. Jones, which is not her name. She has a deep concern with this problem. Mrs. Jones, it is satisfactory that what you say can be recorded and used. You have no objection to that?

STATEMENT OF AN ANONYMOUS WITNESS, REFERRED TO AS "MRS. JONES," A MOTHER OF AN AWOL GI IN GERMANY ON DRUGS

Mrs. JONES. No, sir.

Senator HUGHES. All right, you may proceed, Mrs. Jones, with your testimony.

I appreciate your patience in waiting so long to testify. Will you speak clearly into the microphone, and bring it fairly close to you.

Mrs. JONES. Thank you, Mr. Chairman and gentlemen.

I didn't write anything down because I wanted to talk to you from my heart. I am the mother of a son in a small base in Germany. I had two letters from him telling us that he was on drugs, and I will never forgive myself for not going to help him at that time.

Senator HUGHES. You say a small base in Germany?

Mrs. JONES. Yes, sir. I had been reading of the drug problem in Vietnam, but I didn't realize there was such a situation in Germany.

Do you want me to go in detail, Mr. Chairman?

Senator HUGHES. I would like for you to explain the problem you found it. What you did. Be as concise as possible, but bring all out.

Mrs. JONES. Thank you, sir.

I received the first letter in September telling us that he was on marihuana and hashish. I went to my local physician and another source and he told me that it was not so addicting. The other source told me that if I exposed him, he would be thrown into the brig as a prisoner, so we kept quiet.

In February, we had another letter and he was actually begging us for help, really. We kept quiet.

In April-on April 13, I believe that was when the amnesty program went into effect-is that right?

Senator HUGHES. This year.

Mrs. JONES. Yes, sir. I had a letter that he was AWOL. Realizing that he was sick, I contacted his captain immediately. I called him. He and I thought if I went over to Germany, I might persuade my son to come back to the base, because he was only a mile and a half from the base.

Senator HUGHES. How long did it take you to find him?

Mrs. JONES. I arrived on Saturday, which was May 9. Immediately some friends of his from the base carried me over into this small town and, oh, within an hour's time my son had contacted us in a small cafe. They realized where he was but their hands were tied. They could not help him. Him being sick-if he had been in an accident, if some misfortune had befallen him while he was over there, our Government could not have helped him.

When I saw him, I realized how sick he was. Nothing I said to him, not anything, really, he just was so way out.

Senator HUGHES. I understand you are a nurse, is that right? Mrs. JONES. Yes, sir.

Realizing this, being so tired, I though I would meet him the next day. He promised to meet me. We had plans to try to get some of the boys to help me get him to a car and bring him back to the base. There are so many boys there on drugs-the boys that were with me told me there was about 80 percent of their battery which has a security

Senator HUGHES. Can you pull that microphone a little closer?
Thank you.

Mrs. JONES. The boys told me 80 percent of their battery was on some type of drugs, which is mostly marijuana, hashish, and I know now they are on LSD because I observed them taking it. My son was alerted to the fact that we were going to get him back on base, and the group that he was with hid him out and I didn't see him anymore.

On Sunday, Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday I stayed with the hippies on the river trying to find my son. I asked them all kinds of questions. They were very good to me, except to tell me where we could find my son. I stayed with them and went-one German came aboard, took me to this old deserted medieval fortress we were in early one morning waking up the kids that had taken over the place. We went into one room and woke up eight boys sleeping in Army sleeping bags and Army blankets, and four of those boys were AWOL soldiers on drugs.

We went into the next room-please forgive me three boys and one girl, a 16-year-old girl, sleeping with one of the boys. My heart was broken. She could speak English as good as I. She was

one of the dependents from the base. There she was a mile and a half from her parents and they could not help her. They probably thought she was dead.

Senator HUGHES. Was she taking drugs, too?

Mrs. JONES. Yes, sir.

Now I feel like my son might be dead. I went back on the river and stayed with those kids all day that day on Monday and also Wednesday I stayed with them all day. I sat with them where they sit in groups and they got so accustomed to me being there with them that they would sit around me and roll their cigarettes and I thought it was marijuana or hashish in great big long cigarettes and they pass it around. They didn't smoke it, they just sniffed it. The AWOL soldiers would sit around, too, at the same time. I guess it was approximately 20 AWOL soldiers were there who were on drugs.

Senator HUGHES. Is this in the old castle?

Mrs. JONES. That was on the parkway right on the river. They were doing this right in sight of everyone.

I saw one man who I think of as a mafia-type person who went from group to group selling the drugs. I could see him take them out of his pocket and one German kid was taking the merchandise and giving him money for it. There was another one up on the wall watching me watch him. It frightened me just a little bit.

The boys from the base that were trying to help me locate my son were on marijuana, and they told me in fact, the German hippie kid who seemed to be one of the leaders slept in the military barracks. They were going to eat in the cafeteria. I still don't understand why they weren't apprehended when they went into the base because they went in as soldiers right in the batteries and would get our boys hooked on it. The boys only had to walk about a mile and half. They would go down in groups as soon as they got off work, because they didn't have to sign in and off base.

They would go over there and sit with these German hippy kids and experiment, and the ones who were emotionally sound enough to experiment and go back to the base and leave it alone for a period of time did this. They would go back and forth. But the ones who are very sensitive and emotional-I beg to disagree with the gentleman a moment ago who stated it was only the unintelligent or only the uneducated who were so susceptible to addiction and drugs. In my experience, I have found that the more sensitive, emotional person-you find it in our colleges even in the ones who are more educated-are experimenting with drugs because it seems they are so tired of the monotony or something in our system today that they want to get a kick out of something else.

Senator HUGHES. You didn't find these boys to be of less than average intelligence?

Mrs. JONES. No, sir. I stayed with them

Senator HUGHES. Are barbiturates and amphetamines for sale without prescription?

Mrs. JONES. Without prescription. They even told me their sergeant was on the same thing as diet pills, dexedrine, and so forth.