Senator ELLENDER. Offhand, is that estimate on this point going to amount to a larger sum than what is proposed in this bill? Dr. HOLLIS. Oh, yes; much larger. Senator ELLENDER. How much is that in dollars and cents? Dr. HOLLIS. Depending on building costs, about $2,000,000,000. Senator ELLENDER. And the chart to which you are now referring is predicated on that figure? Dr. HOLLIS. Predicated on a given number of square feet of space. Senator ELLENDER. I understand, but what you are now discussing is predicated on Congress going along for as much as $2,000,000,000? Dr. HOLLIS. No; not at all. Senator SMITH. Then the estimate itself seems to me covers what any of these institutions or institution heads feel they would like to do, sort of a blank check idea. I suppose any institution would do it. If I had unlimited money, I would double my facilities and enrollment and a good many feel that way, especially State institutions. Dr. HOLLIS. The thing that prevents that attitude from developing very much in the private institution is that most of them have to raise by contributions of 40 percent the operating budget after all tuition and fees are paid. State institutions have to go to the legislature for 75 percent of their operating budgets. The limit on current funds reduces the likelihood of undue ambitions in the matter of plant expansion. Senator SMITH. I thought your third question forgot the question of money. Dr. HOLLIS. That is correct. It refers only to additional facilities in square feet. Senator SMITH. They arrive at a total of $2,000,000,000? Dr. HOLLIS. They arrived at a figure in millions of square feet of space. Based on Mr. Field's estimate of $11 a square foot the amount of space colleges need would come to approximately $2,000,000,000. Senator ELLENDER. Let me put it to you this way. I see at the end of the year where you have almost reached the figure of 3,000,000 students; that is in what year? Dr. HOLLIS. That is in the year 1959–60. Senator ELLENDER. Now, in order to attain that goal, if the private and public institutions cannot raise more than they say they can raise, according to figures obtained from them, would it be necessary for Congress to appropriate as much as $2,000,000,000 to carry out the program? Dr. HOLLIS. No. Senator ELLENDER. In other words, your chart then is related to what? Dr. HOLLIS. At this time to amounts less than $2,000,000,000 that Congress Senator ELLENDER. What I would like to have in the record is, What figure in your mind would Congress have to supply in order to reach the goal that you specified or spelled out in that chart you have before us? Dr. HOLLIS. I have not made such an estimate. Senator ELLENDER. Of what value is the chart, then? Dr. HOLLIS. To show the amount of space that colleges need in order to take care of the expected enrollment of veterans and other college students. Senator AIKEN. Without going into the question at all whether State legislatures or private donors or the Federal Government is to provide the facilities. Senator ELLENDER. But in any event the questions that you have asked show that these colleges are not able to furnish so much money. Is that right? Dr. HOLLIS. That is right. They do not tell us in dollars how much, but they are able to build so many square feet of building space; but you can reduce it to dollars by multiplying it by $11. That is how I get the $2,000,000,000 figure. Senator AIKEN. As I understand it, this $2,000,000,000 represents the need for enrollment which they anticipate by 1959-60, is that right? That would amount to only $150,000,000 a year, but due to the fact that they have had so many servicemen dumped in their laps all at once, they require more money all at once than they are able to raise of themselves. Dr. HOLLIS. That is correct, Senator Aiken. It is quite evident if you go from this period of enrollment to this period of enrollment [indicating], you have doubled it. Senator AIKEN. But after you have gotten over the peak, they can go on with the normal college planning and take care of increased programs by themselves. Dr. HOLLIS. That could be done. Senator ELLENDER. One little question, Doctor. I do not want to anticipate you too much, but as I understand the figures that you have obtained from these various colleges are indications of what they now have on hand and what they expect the legislatures to appropriate. Dr. HOLLIS. What they expect from all sources of income. Senator ELLENDER. I see. But should the legislatures be a little more generous it would not take as much Federal money. Dr. HOLLIS. That would be true. Senator ELLENDER. Because, under the bill, as we now have it drafted, in order for an institution to receive some money, it has to do so on a matching basis and it may be that the Congress could provide considerable funds which would not be matched because of the inability of the local institutions to raise the funds. Is that the result? Dr. HOLLIS. That is true. Senator ELLENDER. Well, Doctor, I personally do not desire to criticize in any wise the good work you have done here; but when we in the Congress are confronted with the proposition of what it will cost -and you can see the bill is only for $250,000,000-and you come out with figures running into two billions of dollars, this may have the effect of nullifying the bill that we have before us. Do you get the idea? Dr. HOLLIS. Yes, Senator. I would like now to show the relationship of the veterans to total enrollment. You notice the veteran enrollment as a proportion of the total enrollment has been rising in the fashion that previous witnesses have given to you, and in the judgment of college officials in this country that enrollment will continue to rise for veterans to this point, which is 1949-50 and will continue on a level until 1953-54. Decline in veteran enrollment will begin to take place at about 1953-54 and by about 1957 will have reached a stage where not more than 50,000 veterans will seek admission in any one year. The actual figures are shown in the tables appended to this testimony. Senator ELLENDER. Dr. Hollis, have you any idea of the entire number of veterans who are entitled to this? Do you expect to discuss that later on? Dr. HOLLIS. No; but I will take time to do it now because those are important figures, as you would recognize. On March 31, 1947, the Veterans' Administration reported 5,641,686 veterans that had been given certificates of entitlement for educational purposes. Senator AIKEN. That means that they were qualified for educational work of all levels. That would include vocational training? Dr. HOLLIS. That is right. One other fact on the number now being qualified. The average number being certificated for education per month at that time was 225,000. Senator ELLENDER. And although the total number eligible is, as you have indicated, over five and a half million, the peak load at any time will not exceed one and one quarter of a million students, somewhere in that neighborhood? Mr. HOLLIS. Somewhere in that neighborhood. I would like to elaborate that enrollment figure, total as well as college, if I may. As of the same period, March 31, 1947, there were in training 2,603,523 veterans in on-the-job training and everything else. Senator ELLENDER. Would that include men and women in secondary schools, the whole program? Dr. HOLLIS. That is right. Of the total, 1,884,000 were all types of institutions of education and of this group 1,100,000 were in college. Senator ELLENDER. How many of those were receiving on-the-job training and getting assistance from the employer and from the Government? Dr. HOLLIS. That group would be the difference between our 1,884,000 and 2,603,533. Now, to move over to the questions of plant expansion in terms of the enrollment. College officials have 231,000,000 square feet of building space for nonresidential purposes and for 126,000,000 square feet of residential housing. That is what they have to begin with. They have funds in sight and those include local, form tax sources, bequests, and contributions from the Federal Government under these temporary programs we are carrying on all of those sources put together, have funds in sight to build an additional 43,000,000 square feet of nonresidential housing and 36,000,000 square feet of residential housing for students. That is how much they can increase without any further aid than that that is in sight, 20 percent. Now, they need to increase those facilities about 70 percent of which you see they have only got 20 percent in sight or in hand. Senator ELLENDER. That 20 percent includes money made available by the Federal Government. Dr. HOLLIS. Yes, includes temporary facilities in there, about 25 percent of the nonresidential housing that is in that assured program is temporary facilities to which the Federal Govenment has made some contribution. Before the war, colleges in this country had approximately 165 square feet of space per student for all instructional purposes. At the present time enrollments have increased so much faster than space that that figure has dropped to 110 square feet per student. Those of you who know colleges in prewar days will not think they were overhoused at that time. If they get assured building space and if their enrollments push on up as they believe they will, instead of having as much space as they have to have, 110 per student, they will have only 107 feet. Senator AIKEN. Eliminating the night students and the correspondence students and simply taking the bona fide students. Dr. HOLLIS. That is right, the fellow that is there every day. Now, if they got all of the facilities that they asked for, the whole works-in other words, if they get the red part of the chart down as well as the black part, that will only push the square footage per student back up to 155 as compared with the prewar of 175. Senator AIKEN. What is the generally approved amount of space per pupil required? Dr. HOLLIS. There is no set standard. The nearest that we have to it is the one that we furnished the War and Navy Departments during the war and that was that a student should have a minimum of 120 square feet of instructional space to carry on his program; and for residential space, a minimum of 65 square feet for a student. Senator ELLENDER. Doctor, have you read the statement furnished to us by Mr. Field? Dr. HOLLIS. I have scanned through it but have not read it carefully. Senator ELLENDER. I notice from his statement that the additional facilities needed aggregate 141,560,000 square feet whereas your contention is 121,360,000. Dr. HOLLIS. It is because he gave you an aggregate for permanent buildings only, while I included both permanent and temporary nonresidential housing facilities. Senator ELLENDER. Would you say that your figure and Mr. Field's correspond? Dr. HOLLIS. They correspond; yes. In fact, he got his from me. Senator ELLENDER. Some folks are better judges of figures than others. Senator AIKEN. We thank you, Dr. Hollis. The charts submitted by Dr. Hollis follow: |