where they can go to work, for the simple reason that the district is so poor that they feel that these children should be at work, helping support the community, instead of going to school and learning more; and it has seemed to me-I can see your viewpoint, too-that as the school becomes better and the burden becomes less on the community, it would tend to discourage leaving school at an early age, but it also seems to me that if they received a larger per capita allowance for the children that are actually in school, that that would be an even greater incentive to keep the children in school until they did complete the prescribed minimum of education.

Mrs. ZIMAND. I think it would work out to the same end, a larger per capita based on a smaller number, or a smaller per capita based on a larger number.

Senator ELLENDER. The truth of the matter is that many children are not in school because of lack of facilities in many of the States. Senator AIKEN. That is perfectly true, Senator Ellender.

Senator ELLENDER. And by improving the facilities you will necessarily invite them to come to school.

Senator AIKEN. That is perfectly true, that if you build facilitiesand in some districts I suspect that they don't even have books enough to go around, and that is why we should not earmark the entire amount for salaries.

Senator HILL. I think Mr. Hecht has a comment, Mr. Chairman. Mr. HECHT. Would it be out of order for me to say a few words here?

Senator AIKEN. Mr. Hecht, coming from a State that has to pay about 20 percent of the cost, should have a right to express his views here.

Mr. HECHT. I think the apportionment should be based on the number of children between 5 and 17, not on school attendance. The percentage of children in the Southern States, for example, where they have comparatively little money for education, is very much smaller than from the wealthier States. In other words, a much larger percentage of children in the poorer States do not go to school, largely because of the inadequate budget, partly because some people, some farmers, think the children should help with the crops, and they may go as migratory workers from farm to farm, and I think the money ought to be apportioned according to the number of children. That will have the effect also of getting more money into the poorer States, which is a highly desirable objective in a system of Federal aid for education, where we want to help the poorer States the most, although we want to give the wealthier States something in order that they can bring up the level of the poorer districts-up to the level of the rest of the States. But I feel very, very strongly that that division should be according to the number of children from 5 to 17, rather than the number of children who are attending school. If you did the latter, that would be encouraging the States to provide less education or, rather, to provide education for your children. The whole principle of this bill is to encourage education to as many children as possible.

It should be a principle of the United States Government that every child is born not only with the inalienable right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, but also to a good, decent education that should prepare them for that life and that liberty and that

pursuit of happiness. Therefore I think it is all wrong to deny the poorer States Federal funds for those children that are excluded for one reason or another from the schools, and I urge as strongly as I know how that the division be done in proportion to the total number of children in each State.

Senator AIKEN. Mr. Hecht, the Chair will not be adamant in its position, but it does seem to him that when money is appropriatedand I agree with you it should be enough money to furnish a minimum education to every child in this country-that we should, as far as possible, see that that child does get the minimum education which we should pay for.

Mr. HECHT. I agree with that. I will not quarrel with what is comparatively a detail. I am so anxious to make a start on this Federal aid for elementary and secondary education that I would waive any of these minor things if it will get us votes enough to get this carried and make a beginning. Nothing is perfect. Nothing has ever been perfect from the start. Let us make a start in this Federal aid for education and then perhaps provide more funds and improve the details later on.

Senator AIKEN. Thank you, Mr. Hecht. Are there any further questions of any of the witnesses? If not, we will recess until 10 o'clock tomorrow morning in this room. We have seven witnesses scheduled to appear, the first witness being Dr. Zook, president of the American Council on Education; and inasmuch as we have several witnesses, we will try to start the hearings at 10 o'clock promptly.

(Whereupon, at 11:10 a. m., the subcommittee adjourned until 10 a. m., Wednesday, April 23, 1947.)

FEDERAL AID TO EDUCATION

WEDNESDAY, APRIL 23, 1947

UNITED STATES SENATE,

SUBCOMMITTEE ON EDUCATION OF THE

COMMITTEE ON LABOR AND PUBLIC WELFARE,

Washington, D. C. The subcommittee met, pursuant to adjournment, at 10 a. m., in room 357, Senate Office Building, Senator George D. Aiken presiding. Present: Senators Aiken (presiding), Smith, Thomas, Ellender, and Hill.

Senator AIKEN. The committee will be in order. We have six witnesses to be heard this morning. I hope we can get through with all of them before the Senate meets. Our first witness is Dr. George F. Zook, president of the American Council on Education. Dr. Zook, will you take the stand, please, and proceed with your statement. STATEMENT OF DR. GEORGE F. ZOOK, Ph. D., PRESIDENT, AMERI

CAN COUNCIL ON EDUCATION, WASHINGTON, D. C.

Dr. Zook. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, my name is George F. Zook, president of the American Council on Education. As I have had the opportunity to do upon several occasions, may I say that the American Council on Education is our attempt in the field of education to federate the activities and the work of the extremely large number of educational associations in this country and very numerous institutions of education, so that at the present time, as I have brought out in the statement which has been submitted to you, the council consists of 65 of these constitutent member organizations, 56 associate member organizations, and 840 institutional members, composed of higher educational institutions and school systems, both public and private.

I have accepted your invitation to submit a written statement, which I trust is before you, and I don't think I am disposed to ask your leniency to read it. I would like to submit it at this time for the record.

Senator AIKEN. Your complete statement will be received for the record, Dr. Zook, and we would be glad to hear you in summary of your statement, presenting the high points which you wish to make. Dr. Zook. Well, may I begin then quite informally, first of all, by pointing out what is sometimes forgotten, namely, that we have now reached a point where it seems to me that, so far as investigation and study is concerned, we have all of the facts in this situation that anybody could possibly wish for. These studies have gone on over a period of 35 years or more. I am sure it would be true to say that

no other subject in the field of education has been studied and researched to anything like the extent that this subject has been studied, and I wish merely, therefore, to say that it seems to me very clear that we ought to be able to make up our minds about this matter now, after these long years of searching for pertinent information. That is one point I have tried to make clear here on the first page of this statement, by naming some of the more important studies that have been carried on, ending up with a couple in which the American Council on Education itself has been specially interested.

I have referred to the fact that every one of these studies, done by outstanding lay people and leaders in American education, has ended up, so far as I can recall-and I have had something to do with a good many of them-has ended up with just two conclusions, namely, that education is of very great concern to the Nation as a whole, as well as to the several States and localities, and that in order to raise the level of education in a considerable number of the States to desirable levels, Federal aid to education is necessary.

I am not going to try to labor the fact that education is a matter of great concern to the Nation as a whole, as well as to the several States. We saw that in the course of the last war, both by the deficiencies of many thousands of men because of illiteracy and because of lack of physical qualities. There were literally numerous divisions of men that might have been in the Army had we had a satisfactory educational system throughout the country. On the other hand, to whatever extent the educational system was effective, to that extent it was unnecessary for the Army and Navy to go through the processes of further training.

I have pointed out in this statement that there is, as everybody knows, a difference among the States, so far as wealth is concerned and so far as income is concerned. Another fact-which is just as much of a fact but not generally known quite so well-is the fact that for every 1,000 adults in the population in the several States, we have very different numbers of children between the ages of 5 and 17 to be educated.

Senator AIKEN. That number, Doctor, if you will pardon the interruption, has been increased far more than was anticipated in recent years, has it not?

Dr. Zook. Yes, sir.

Senator AIKEN. I have been expecting some witness to put into the record before now the fact that, instead of 7 million anticipated births between 1940 and 1946, there have been 11 million, or what amounts to 20 percent of our total school population.

Dr. Zook. Yes, sir.

Senator AIKEN. We had 28 million, that figure is not 20 percent, but 15 percent unexpected increase in our school population, which is even now beginning to enter the primary grades.

Dr. Zook. And those births take place, as they have hitherto, in the States which are least able to support education from a financial point of view, and they take place in those States where there is a smaller number of adult individuals able to support these people in school.

Senator THOMAS. Dr. Zook, don't you think we ought to pass a law making it necessary for our country to live up to projected statistics?