In answer to this, I refer you first of all to the attached report. Private foundation support is seriously lagging in the field of aging and at present shows little signs of improvement, especially in the areas of basic research and training of personnel. I do not believe governmental programs should depend on the potential concerns of private foundations since the latter may have rather limited objectives in the field. More directly, private foundations are quite often more interested in "policy" or "practical" research and less likely to support developmental programs of broad research or training and to sustain them over a period of time.-Harold L. Orbach.

As Federal support of research increases, Government agencies should make long-term investments in men and institutions, following the same procedure now taken by panels, study sections, etc., which give the highest priority to the institution that has consistently appointed competent scientists and provided a congenial research atmosphere. A scientist's achievements, his status, and reputation, rather than the merits of a specific detailed proposal, is one suggested basis for awarding funds.—Harold F. Osborne.

Centers for the study of aging should also act as training centers for laboratory scientists and physicians. It would be very much worthwhile to include in the overall grant funds for such training, which should subsidize specific courses in problems of gerontology as well as direct research training.—Gregory Pincus.

Yes, definitely. Private foundations are impatient for results.-Otto Pollak.

I consider that long-range investments in research when promoted by the Government are desirable in that the afford security and time for the development of broad research programs. Such long-range investments are of course predicated on a stable research program in which the participating scientist will continue to work. However, such a stable framework is not always predictable and a long-range program may not develop as anticipated. I approve of such long-range investments when the granting agency is convinced that there is a good chance that a program will benefit and develop under these special conditions and security. I would hope that both governmental and private foundation investments would participate in aging research.-Dorothy Price.

The Government should promote long-range investments in research but not at the cost of the private foundation system. Private foundations should be allowed to apply for governmental support on the same basis of merit as individuals who apply for research support.-Ernest Retzlaff.

Very definitely, yes. My comments above indicate that I do not feel that we can expect much private support of such research for the present, because of the less dramatic nature of senescence and the problems of the aged and aging. However, either through specific bond issues or through congressional commitments of funds, long-range programs in research and investigatorships and professorships in gerontology are necessary to attract and maintain research interest and participation by dedicated medical, biological, and physical scientists to this growing field of research.-Morris Rockstein.

I think the Government should underwrite the long-range projects. Private foundations could supplement certain phases.-James B. Rogers.

At present there seems to be little distinction between the research fund granting by Government and private foundations in the social sciences. The same personnel are found on the advisory committees and the same policies are followed. Government may be better equipped to promote long-range investments in research, but both kinds of organizations need to keep their minds open to new

kinds of research operations and new research topics, whether they be long range or short range. One requirement for this would be to avoid the interlocking directorates which now prevail in both private foundation and Government committees which make grants for research in the social sciences.-Arnold M. Rose.

Longitudinal studies covering long periods of time are essential in aging research. These kinds of studies can rarely be supported by private foundations, even though they are of great importance. This is an area of support where public funds would be particularly well employed.-K. Warner Schaie.

Long-range improvement of the investment of the Government in research on aging is definitely necessary. The sharing plan mentioned a number of times previously is feasible and may contribute to reducing expenditures-Henry P. Schwarz.

There is a significant place for both governmental and private support of research, including long-range investments. Ideally, the relationship between these dual sources would be complementary with programs imaginatively conceived to assure adequate support for priority problems and gap areas.

We do not believe that any specific percentage relationship between governmental and private foundation investments in aging research should be established; both types of support should be encouraged.-James A. Shannon.

In addition to training new scientists, facilities and long-term support for studies in aging must be provided to encourage competent investigators to devote their talents and energies to problems of aging on a full-time basis.-Nathan Shock.

It is in the nature of research in gerontology that projects will extend over long periods of time. The established policy of the NIH of awarding grants for research committed for periods up to 7 years and repeated continuation grants for similar periods, if the results or the work in progress warrant it, should suffice to give the responsible investigators the security and planning possibilities needed for long-range studies. As a rule, commitments need not exceed 5 years. It is not an unreasonable burden for an investigator to give an account of his accomplishments and to reevaluate the project after 3 or 4 years, the time for renewal application. With the rapid accumulation of new knowledge from all parts of the world the grantee himself may find it desirable to alter his approach and his aims after an interval of several years.

Long-range investments should be made the particular responsibility of the Federal Government, if private foundations hesitate to enter such commitments. Otherwise the relations between private foundations supporting research in gerontology and the governmental agencies should be based on the same principles as the corresponding policies regarding the support of research in cancer, leukemia, heart, rheumatic diseases, etc.-Martin Silberberg.

It is to be hoped that private foundation support of research will not stop because of Government contributions in this field. It is to be hoped that private foundations will continue so that the Government will not have a monopoly on the support of medical research. Otherwise, the investigator who has an application turned down will have no other place to apply, and there will be a tendency on the part of Government committees to approve applications which they do not really favor, rather than place the applicant in a hopeless position.Henry S. Simms.

Should the Government promote long-range investments in research, in distinction to private foundation promotion? What should be the relationship between governmental and private foundation investments in aging research?

I am very much in favor of the Federal Government continuing to promote and expand long-range investments in research. This is no reason to discourage increasing investment on the part of private foundations. It seems, however (certainly in the mental health field), that as the Federal Government moves in to encourage training and research, private foundations move out to develop research in other fields. In the field of aging, the problem is so vast and the questions to be answered so many that there should be no contradiction in the support of aging research both by Government and private foundations.Alexander Simon.

Yes; 70 percent Government and 30 percent private support.-Durwood J. Smith.

Should the Government promote long-range investments in research, in distinction to private foundation promotion? What should be the relationship between governmental and private foundation investments in aging research? The great achievements of medical research in the last decade are undoubtedly due to a major degree to the important role played by Government support. These achievements have created a base for further needed expansion of our research assault against the major contemporary diseases, all of which are diseases of aging (e.g., the cardiovascular-renal diseases, the arthritides, the neoplasms, diabetes). This further necessary expansion is possible only on the basis of steadily increasing long-range investments in research by the Federal Government. As experience has shown, such Government support tends to encourage, not discourage, private foundations' investments in aging research. Experience has also shown that the areas of support can be readily and fruitfully coordinated, and continued efforts should be made to assure such cooperative expansion in the years ahead.-Jeremiah Stamler.

Both foundation and Government have a stake in long-range investments in research. Joint cooperation in ventures, as exemplified by the American_Heart Association and the National Heart Institute, are mutually profitable.—Eugene A. Stead, Jr.

Yes. (See Nos. 1 and 2 above.)-Joseph W. Still.

It is my opinion that the Government should pursue its long-range planning for research in this field quite independent of other organizations. Foundation support has tended to be somewhat erratic and almost whimsical. One major foundation has followed a rather capricious course in the way in which research has been selected for support. In general, continuity of support for basic research is desirable. The Government should not be bound by the interests or commitments of the private foundation programs. It has been claimed that private organizations tend to support research which is more experimental and innovative than governmental research. I do not think this has been true in the field of aging. My impression is that the foundations have tended to support "safe" projects which will maximize a positive public image of the foundation's interest in urgent social problems.-Gordon F. Streib.

I feel that the Government should promote long-range investments in research in distinction to private foundation promotion. I feel that the relationship between governmental and private foundation_ investments in aging research should be similar to what it is in heart research, cancer research, and other categories.-Norman M. Sulkin.

r

If by "investments in research" is meant support of university scientists on a longer term basis, I believe there is much to be said for this approach. It should help in encouraging scientists to grapple with fundamental problems rather than concentrating on turning out a large number of papers on less significant topics. If, however, "investments in research" means enlarging present Government

research institutes and pirating more scientists away from the universities, I am opposed. The Government and private institutes are essentially parasitical, since they cannot hope to train future scholars to the same extent the universities can. Neil C. Tappen.

The Government is probably in a better position to support long-range high cost investments in research than most private foundations. In some instances one source of support can supplement the other. The Government is in a better position to encourage and support fundamental research that has no immediate application value. Foundations and other sources of private support frequently are dedicated to particular viewpoints and particular applications and results.— Thomas T. Tourlentes.

Since, in my opinion, the Nation's brainpower is one of its most precious national resources, I think it is imperative that long-range investments in able scientists be made by the Government. As to the optimum relationship between governmental and private investments in aging research, this is a matter of philosophy. In general, however, I would consider it the responsibility of the Government to see that no promising talent or ideas are neglected.—Arthur C. Upton.

With regard to item 6, I believe that a closer coordination of private foundation and governmental giving is indicated.-Otto von Mering.

Since a 5-year-old rat cannot be produced in less than 5 years, it is absolutely imperative that long-range investments, commitments, and grants be established. In aging, more than in any other field of science, a short-term investment yields a far smaller return than a long-term one. During the first few years of any biologically oriented program on aging very little can be accomplished until old and senescent experimental subjects can be screened and made available.

Where private funds are available I believe the Government should remain in the background (example: pharmacology and chemistry). Where private funds are lacking or scarce I believe the Government should provide the major share of funds (example: physiology and pathology).-A. Kurt Weiss.

The Government should promote long-range investigations in aging research.— James M. A. Weiss.

Laboratory research is a long-range activity and continued support is necessary. If biological research is to advance at a pace in keeping with other aspects of our technology, long-term support is necessary and must be undertaken by the Government, for the activities of private foundations are apt to be too varied, haphazard, and uncontrollable to be effective.-Verner J. Wulff.

Question No. 7

Is aging research such a new and emerging area that financing and encouragement for researchers in this field need special attention?

Responses

No. In the bibliography which I have been using in this study of longevity, studies of peoples in many countries show that it is not new. The scientific aspects of it, however, are hardly more than 60 years old, and the ones which give evidence of some basic research are less than that. Research should be encouraged because longevity and gerontology are in competition with some very expensive studies in the physical sciences, which have high prestige, and consequently have big donations made to them. As one thinks of the whole of human society

he will probably and finally conclude that human welfare is the foundation on which all research should be based. The whole of human welfare should be better financed and on a broader foundation than at present.-Chester Alexander.

In my opinion, aging research is a new and emerging area and both the financing and the encouragement of research workers in this field need special attention. I am not sure that any grandiose program of great immediate financing would produce the results. I, myself, would favor a somewhat more moderate program with special attention paid to the attraction of able young men within the various scientific fields into the field on the assumption that more funds would be made available in each succeeding year.-John E. Anderson.

Decidedly yes. Aging research is such a new and emerging area that encouragement for workers in this field and financing of their work do need special attention.-Warren Andrew.

I would say that financing and encouragement for researchers in aging needs attention, but it certainly needs it in all aspects of medicine and not particularly for any one area. I would think that this is a problem that must be decided by the deans of medicine in this country as to what are the important problems and which ones perhaps should have more priority over the others. I do not believe that aging research necessarily has priority over other urgent problems.-Henry H. Banks.

In reply to (7) I would say, yes, research in aging is still new enough that special encouragement should be given to new ideas and programs. Much current research follows the same pattern, while many areas are scarcely explored at all.-Belle Boone Beard.

I believe it unwise to attract scientists to any specific field. It is imperative to attract qualified individuals to the general field of basic biological research.— Howard B. Bensusan.

Aging research definitely is a new and emerging area, many people are working on the periphery of gerontology, few are employed directly in gerontology research. It is important for the development of this work that gerontological positions should be established. I believe the Government should make funds available at a number of universities for faculty appointments at a professorial or associate professorial level in gerontology. Such individuals should be attached to basic science or clinical departments. Funds should be made available for building additional accommodation and for fitting and equipping appropriate laboratories for these individuals and providing technical assistance. Immediate establishment of 6 to 10 of these appointments across the Nation would lift the whole field of medicobiological investigation of gerontology to a new level at one swoop.— Geoffrey H. Bourne.

This healthy state of affairs should continue and should guide increased Govvernment promotion of research. I do not believe workers need to be attracted into this field. Their own interest in it should serve as sufficient motivation in the field.-Clark E. Brown.

Aging is certainly not a new area for research; but because of changing circumstances it has become a high priority or need area. During recent years considerable attention has been given to developing and encouraging research and training of investigators in the field of aging. Aging research will continue to require this specialized support and attention for an unforeseeable number of years.-Ewald W. Busse.