COMMITTEE ON GOVERNMENT REFORM AND OVERSIGHT

WILLIAM F. CLINGER, JR., Pennsylvania, Chairman

JAMES L. CLARKE, Staff Director
KEVIN SABO, General Counsel
JUDITH McCoy, Chief Clerk

JEFFREY WILMOT, Professional Staff Member
BUD MYERS, Minority Staff Director
DAVID SCHOOLER, Minority Chief Counsel

SUBCOMMITTEE ON NATIONAL SECURITY, INTERNATIONAL AFFAIRS, AND CRIMINAL

JUSTICE

WILLIAM H. ZELIFF, JR., New Hampshire, Chairman

KAREN L. THURMAN, Florida

EX OFFICIO

WILLIAM F. CLINGER, JR., Pennsylvania

ROBERT CHARLES, Staff Director and Chief Counsel

T. MARCH BELL, Counsel

MICHELE LANG, Counsel

SEAN LITTLEFIELD, Special Assistant and Clerk

McCollum, Hon. Bill, a Representative in Congress from the State of Florida,

and chairman, Subcommittee on Crime ....

Zeliff, Hon. William H., Jr., a Representative in Congress from the State

of New Hampshire, and chairman, Subcommittee on National Security,

International Affairs, and Criminal Justice

WITNESSES

Aguilera, Davey, Special Agent, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
Altman, Roger, former Deputy Secretary of the Treasury

Ballesteros, Roland, Special Agent, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
Barber, Lewis Gene, former lieutenant, McLennan County, TX, Sheriff's Of-
fice

Bassett, Donald, former Crisis Management Specialist, Federal Bureau of
Investigation

Bentsen, Lloyd M., former Secretary of the Treasury

Black, Daniel R., Deputy Director, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms

Buford, William, Resident Agent in Charge, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and

Firearms, Little Rock, AR..

5

2

210

766

776

168

302

509

693

414, 716

Cadigan, James, Firearms Expert, Federal Bureau of Investigation

Chojnacki, Phillip, former Special Agent in Charge, Bureau of Alcohol, To-

bacco and Firearms, Houston, TX..

718

411, 746

Coonce, John, Tactical Expert, Drug Enforcement Administration
Crain, Chris, Special Project Coordinator, U.S. Army Special Operations Com-
mand, Ft. Bragg, NC

Cuyler, Christopher, ATF Liaison to the Assistant Secretary of the Treasury
Deschamps, Robert, president, National District Attorneys Association
Dunagan, Earl, former Acting Special Agent in Charge, Bureau of Alcohol,
Tobacco and Firearms, Austin, TX

Dunn, Sfc. Chris, U.S. Army Third Special Forces Group, Ft. Bragg, NC

Fitts, S. Sgt. Steve, U.S. Army Third Special Forces Group, Ft. Bragg, NC
Gardner, Steve, attorney

370

445

Goldstein, Gerald H., president, National Association of Criminal Defense
Lawyers

128

Hartnett, Daniel, former Deputy Director for Enforcement, Bureau of Alcohol,

Tobacco and Firearms

221, 755

Higgins, Stephen, former Director, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms 519
Holmes, Ambassador H. Allen, Assistant Secretary of Defense for Special
Operations and Low Intensity Conflict

356

Huffman, Brig. Gen. Walter B., U.S. Army, Assistant Judge Advocate General
for Military Law and Operations

345

Ishimoto, Wade, Technical Manager, Sandia National Laboratories

299

Jahn, Ray, assistant U.S. attorney, Department of Justice, accompanied by
LeRoy Morgan Jahn

93

Jewell, Kiri, resident at Mount Carmel, accompanied by her father David

Jewell

147

Johnston, Bill, assistant U.S. attorney, Department of Justice
Kolman, John A., former captain, Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department
Langan, Michael, former Acting Deputy Assistant Secretary of the Treasury
Lindley, Lt. Col. Philip, former Deputy Staff Judge Advocate, U.S. Army
Special Forces Command, Ft. Bragg, NC

............

Magaw, John W., Director, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
Merletti, Lewis C., Assistant Project Director, Department of the Treasury
Waco Administrative Review Team
McMahon, Henry, firearms dealer

350

865

418, 693 162

Moreland, S. Sgt. Robert W., U.S. Army Third Special Forces Group, Ft.
Bragg, NC

Morrison, George, former chief, Metro Tactical Division, Los Angeles Police
Department.

351

300, 599

Moulton, H. Geoffrey, Jr., Project Director, Department of the Treasury Review Team

218

Oboyski, Victor, president, Law Enforcement Officers Association
Owens, Ed, Firearms Expert, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
Perry, Bruce Duncan, M.D., Ph.D., associate professor of psychiatry and be-
havioral sciences, Baylor Medical College

Noble, Ronald K., Under Secretary for Law Enforcement, Department of the Treasury

816

594

213

Petree, Maj. Mark, formerly attached to Third Division, Third Brigade, Army
Special Forces Group, Ft. Bragg, NC

Pickler, Maj. Gen. John M., former Commander, Joint Task Force Six
Reavis, Dick J., author of "The Ashes of Waco"

Rodriguez, Robert, Special Agent, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
Sanders, Robert E., former Deputy Director for Enforcement, Bureau of Alco-
hol, Tobacco and Firearms

Sarabyn, Chuck, former Assistant Special Agent in Charge, Bureau of Alco-
hol, Tobacco and Firearms, Houston, TX...

Simpson, John, former Acting Assistant Secretary of the Treasury
Sparks, Joyce, Texas Department of Child Protective Services
Thibodeau, David, resident at Mount Carmel

214

355

354

47

749

293

217, 412, 748

519

575

123

762

717, 748

81

Wheeler, Sharon, Special Agent, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms
Williams, John Henry, Special Agent, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Fire-

arms...

Wright, Stuart A., associate professor of sociology, Lamar University

LETTERS, STATEMENTS, ETC., SUBMITTED FOR THE HEARINGS

Barr, Hon. Bob, a Representative in Congress from the State of Georgia:
Department of Justice news release dated July 21, 1995

608

Sundry document relative to the hearings

657

Treasury Department documents dated April 9 and 14, 1993

553

Bryant, Hon. Ed, a Representative in Congress from the State of Tennessee:
Prepared statement

40

Raid day February 28, 1993, chart

937

Chabot, Hon. Steve, a Representative in Congress from the State of Ohio:
BATF documents dated October 26, 1994

695

Summary meeting documents......

714, 720

Clinger, Hon. William F., Jr., a Representative in Congress from the State of Pennsylvania: Prepared statement

18

Collins, Hon. Cardiss, à Representative in Congress from the State of Illinois:
Prepared statement

25

Condit, Hon. Gary A., a Representative in Congress from the State of California: Prepared statement

42

Conyers, Hon. John, Jr., a Representative in Congress from the State of Michigan: Letter dated July 13, 1995, from Albert W. Alschuler, University of Chicago Law School

810

Evans, Tim, attorney: Prepared statement

625

Goldstein, Gerald H., president, National Association of Criminal Defense
Lawyers: Prepared statement

130

Holmes, Ambassador H. Allen, Assistant Secretary of Defense for Special
Operations and Low Intensity Conflict: Prepared statement

358

Huffman, Brig. Gen. Walter B., U.S. Army, Assistant Judge Advocate General for Military Law and Operations: Prepared statement

346

Jahn, Ray, assistant U.S. attorney, Department of Justice: Prepared state

ment

100

Jewell, Kiri, resident at Mount Carmel: Prepared statement

Kolman, John A., former captain, Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department:
Prepared statement

Magaw, John W., Director, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms: Pre-
pared statement

McCollum, Hon. Bill, a Representative in Congress from the State of Florida,
and chairman, Subcommittee on Crime: Opening statement

Merletti, Lewis C., Assistant Project Director, Department of the Treasury
Waco Administrative Review Team: Prepared statement

Page

151

590

865

7

488

Mica, Hon. John L., a Representative in Congress from the State of Florida:
Partial Treasury Department document dated February 16, 1994
Noble, Ronald K., Under Secretary for Law Enforcement, Department of
the Treasury: Prepared statement

911

824

Perry, Bruce Duncan, M.D., Ph.D., associate professor of psychiatry and be-
havioral sciences, Baylor Medical College: Prepared statement
Reavis, Dick J., author of "The Ashes of Waco":

234

Correspondence with various Government agencies
Prepared statement

Rosedale, Herbert L., president, American Family Foundation (AFF) and
William Rehling, president, Cult Awareness Network (CAN): Prepared
statement

Sanders, Robert E., former Deputy Director for Enforcement, Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms: Prepared statement

295

Schumer, Hon. Charles E., a Representative in Congress from the State of New York: Prepared statement

12

Shadegg, Hon. John B., a Representative in Congress from the State of
Arizona: Departments of Defense, Justice, and Treasury documents
Taylor, Hon. Gene, a Representative in Congress from the State of Mis-
sissippi: Prepared statement

957

192

Thibodeau, David, resident at Mount Carmel: Prepared statement

126

Thurman, Hon. Karen L., a Representative in Congress from the State of
Florida:

Department of the Treasury documents concerning authorization

471

Letter dated March 28, 1993, to President Bill Clinton from David S.
Jewell

158

Prepared statement

9

Watt, Hon. Melvin L., a Representative in Congress from the State of North Carolina: Statements of individuals on helicopter denying they fired at any point

387

Wright, Stuart A., associate professor of sociology, Lamar University: Prepared statement

87

Zeliff, Hon. William H., Jr., a Representative in Congress from the State of New Hampshire, and chairman, Subcommittee on National Security, International Affairs, and Criminal Justice:

Opening statement

Treasury Department document dated April 9, 1993

4

898