Mr. TOLBERT. We are asking, sir, that the authority for the importation of foreign labor be left, so that if there is an emergency, and the labor is not anywhere else, the Secretary of Agriculture can certify that if it is needed we can get it, but if any importation is carried out under that system all the expense under that system is to be borne by the farmer who is going to use the labor. He will import it at his own expense.

Mr. GRANGER. If I understand what you have said, you propose that the farmers pay the cost. Now, what about the $500,000 that it is going to cost and the $5,000,000 that it is going to cost? How is the Government and the State going to pay that? To what service are they going to pay that money?

Mr. TOLBERT. We are requesting that that come out of the general funds of the Treasury, sir.

Mr. GRANGER. Is it going to cost the Federal Government for the top administration of this act $500,000?

Mr. TOLBERT. Well, that will include the gathering and dissemination of the agricultural statistics and information and such as that from all the 48 States and correlate that information between the State organizations, the State agencies that are handled under the Cooperative Extension Act.

Mr. GRANGER. How do you go about getting employees. How do you propose to do it under your plan?

Mr. TOLBERT. Well, if I may, sir, I would like to use your own State as an example.

Mr. GRANGER. Go ahead.

Mr. TOLBERT. In your sugar-beet areas it has long been more or less traditional that a good bit of the imported workers that came into Utah came from over in Central Valley of California and during recent years the labor supply just has not been there and much of the importation to that territory has had to come from other areas. Well, we believe that under this system, if there are not enough workers over in the Central Valley of California to come into Utah to do that work, that they will have information as to where they are to the east and south of there and that they can go get them without having to go through the expensive process of going into their old areas and trying to recruit, and, failing, having to go somewhere else. Mr. GRANGER. Who does the actual recruiting?

Mr. TOLBERT. Suppose that they know that 6,000 sugar-beet workers are needed in Utah, or for the canning of crops and such as that. They will supply them, and if that does not fill the gap the local farmers will have to foot the bill for going out and recruiting what else is needed to fill out the labor supply.

Mr. GRANGER. But you do not have any facilities for doing that

now.

Mr. TOLBERT. We do have in many of the States. My own organization right now is recruiting men under this program and bringing them into Oregon.

Mr. GRANGER. I was in hopes that we would get away from any possibility of recruiting foreign labor to do our farm work. I am sorry that you come here supporting that provision in the bill. I think the committee is rather definitely on record as being opposed to continuing in importation of foreign labor.

Mr. TOLBERT. Mr. Granger, we do not want to use it, either, and we hope that we are through with it. We do feel that if the necessity arises, when it is necessary to save crops the authority should be there. We do not think that it should be done at Federal expense any more. - If a farmer or a group of farmers are in an emergency where they need that labor, we will have to have them in a position to pay the bill themselves.

Mr. GRANGER. Is there a shortage of farm labor at the present time?

Mr. TOLBERT. There has been in my State most of the spring. At the present time we are recruiting and shipping men into my State. The farmers themselves are paying the bill and bringing the men in.

Mr. GRANGER. I really never heard of a scarcity of farm labor until we set up these agencies, and as the gentleman from Pennsylvania said, when we go to do away with them we are told that there is a need for them. I am wondering when we are going to get around to the point where we can get back to running our own farms with our own labor instead of depending upon some agency to bring it in from afar. We used to get along in some fashion. Why cannot we do it now?

Mr. TOLBERT. We believe that this bill comes nearer putting the farmer back into the business of taking care of his own farm labor than anything that we have had in a good many years.

The CHAIRMAN. The shortage of farm labor is closely tied up with high industrial employment, is it not?

Mr. TOLBERT. It is tied up in two things, Mr. Chairman. It is tied up to the high industrial employment, which I understand from news releases this past week has reached an all-time high in the United States, and it is tied up, secondly, with the fact that we are now producing agricultural food and fibre at the highest rate we ever have in the whole history of our Nation. I think the two combined make a situation that we have never had before.

The CHAIRMAN. The period before the war, to which reference has been made, was a period of great industrial unemployment, was it not? Mr. TOLBERT. That is right.

The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Flannagan.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. Please turn to page 7 of the bill, line 8. It reads:

The designated State agencies are hereby authorized to operate the properties referred to in this section and the funds made available pursuant to this act max be expended for such purposes.

Does that mean that the Federal Government is going to pay for the operation of these camps?

Mr. TOLBERT. I would like to refer you to line 1 of the same page, Mr. Flannagan, and read that first. It says:

Under this act until liquidated, and such liquidation shall proceed as expeditiously as possible and be completed not later than December 31, 1948.

In other words, Mr. Flannagan, we are asking that we be given a year and the rest of this year to arrange our finances and get our local groups together so that we can purchase these camps and take them out so that they will be held as farm houses.

65448-47- -2

Mr. FLANNAGAN. There is no limitation in the language I referred to.. You state:

The designated State agencies are hereby authorized to operate the properties referred to in this section and the funds made available to them pursuant to this act may be expended for such purposes.

Mr. TOLBERT. Mr. Flannagan, we thought that we had worded it so that the liquidation and the funds with which to operate would all cease as of December 31, 1948, and if we have not done that we are in error and would be glad to correct it.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. There is no limitation in the language that I read. It would apply as long as the appropriation was made, and there is no limitation on the appropriation.

Mr. TOLEERT. As I say, if we have failed to say that the appropriations should not extend beyond December 31, 1948, we are very happy to stand corrected on it.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. Just tell me what you expect the Federal Government to do. I will quote (a) of section 2, appearing on page 2, line 16:

Collecting, publishing, and disseminating information with respect to the supply and demand for agricultural workers in the State, and other related information. Just what do you expect the Federal Government to do under (a) on page 2, beginning on line 16?

Mr. TOLBERT. We hope there that through the county agent offices, and the Bureau of Agricultural Economics, and the various organizations in the Department, that they will gather information as to where surplus supplies of labor are, where labor is needed, for what crops, under what conditions, and that they will make it possible for the farmers to know where the surplus areas are, and where labor can be obtained; also, let the workers know what the job opportunities are and what the crops are, and what they are to do.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. Under that language there would be no duty either upon the farmers or the State to supply this information, would there? Is that right?

Mr. TOLBERT. I think that the urgency of the situation would serve to make that, sir. If a farmer needed workers, he would certainly let the Extension Service know that he needed workers, for what crops, and when. The Extension Service, with their organization, would be able to keep track of where there was a surplus supply of labor.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. You suppose all these things. Here you call upon the Federal Government to furnish this information, and it seems to me, from the way you have the bill drafted, that all a farmer would have to do would be send an order up here to the Department of Agriculture for 100 laborers, or 200 laborers, and expect it to be filled, at a cost to the Federal Government. Is that what you have in the back of your head?

Mr. TOLBERT. No, sir. If we have said that in the bill, we are in error, Mr. Flannagan. We did not intend to say that.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. What do you expect the Federal Government to do?

Mr. TOLBERT. We expect to get information only to the farmer and to the worker from the Federal Government, and if there is any other expense involved that must be borne by the farmer.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. You would expect the Federal Government to furnish sufficient funds to obtain all this information?

Mr. TOLBERT. Yes.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. To collect it, publish it, disseminate it with respect to the supply and demand for agricultural workers in the States, and other related information?

Mr. TOLBERT. Yes.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. Do you not know that it would take a lot of clerical help to get the information out?

Mr. TOLBERT. We feel if it is done in the existing organization of the Federal Extension Service and the State extension services, it would be done much cheaper.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. But the Federal Government would have to put on the additional force at its own expense and would have to have representatives in practically every farming area in the United States so that the information would be accurate.

Mr. TOLBERT. That is another reason why we feel it is well in the Department of Agriculture, because there are many areas where it could be done as an added activity to present existing staffs and offices.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. Under (b) on line 18 you provide for the Federal Government to make

appropriate studies, demonstrations, or other educational methods, farmers and agricultural workers in the adoption of improved practices and facilities for performing farm labor operations.

Do you expect the Federal Government to work out your plan?
Mr. TOLBERT. We would expect some assistance there.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. How much assistance? Who is to do this? Mr. TOLBERT. As I say, we estimate it would cost no more than $5,500,000.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. It would cost the Federal Government that?
Mr. TOLBERT. Yes.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. I thought you said that it would cost the Government about $500,000 and the State agencies $5,000,000.

Mr. TOLBERT. In my statement, sir, I said we figured it would cost $500,000 for the operation of the program here on the Federal level and $5,000,000 for aid to the 48 States in carrying out the program. Mr. FLANNAGAN. Neither the farmers nor the States would participate in the burden of carrying this program on; is that right?

Mr. TOLBERT. Yes. We would participate to a much larger extent than that, because the transportation, the recruiting, and so forth, must be considered, and we have provided that we will take over the housing. The housing would all be done at the expense of the farmer. I think this committee is well aware of how much money that has cost in the past, which is much more than we ask in this part of the program, and that will be assumed by the farmers under this program. Mr. FLANNAGAN. Does this legislation involve any duty or burden the States?

upon

Mr. TOLBERT. It makes it possible for States to participate wherever they wish. We are in hopes that in several of the States they will participate.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. There is no requirement here that before the States can receive Federal aid they shall participate financially in the

program.

Mr. TOLBERT. No, sir.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. There is no requirement here that before the program goes into operation that the farmer shall in any way become liable for any of the costs of this program?

Mr. TOLBERT. We have to become liable for that part of the program that we are going to have to bear.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. That is, maintaining your camps, and transportation. That would come from the farm organizations.

Mr. TOLBERT. Yes.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. Now, look at (c), line 22:

Facilitating the orderly intrastate and interstate movement of agricultural workers.

Now, you put the duty upon the Government to not only find these workers, but to see that the transportation facilites are worked out for them so that they can be sent from place to place; is that right?

Mr. TOLBERT. Well, that is making use of the information that we provide for in subdivision (a).

Mr. FLANNAGAN. Well, you place the burden upon the Government to see that the transportation facilities are worked out.

Mr. TOLBERT. No, sir, we say "facilitation of the orderly movement" of these men. We will supply the transportation and take care of the expense involved there.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. You will pay the cost, but you put the burden on the Government to see that these men are transported from one part of the country to another.

Mr. TOLBERT. That is only by furnishing the information, Mr. Flannagan.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. The bill reads:

The purposes of the act to be effectuated in any State by the agency designated therein shall include * * * (c) facilitating the orderly intrastate and interstate movement of agricultural workers.

How do you figure that is the duty of the Federal Government? Mr. TOLBERT. We believe that that can be done by furnishing this information as to where the workers are needed and where the supply of workers is.

Mr. FLANNIGAN. You make it mandatory upon the Federal Government to make available information with respect to the supply demand for agricultural workers. The Government will have to set up organizations all over the country in order to obtain the information.

Mr. TOLBERT. We think it can be cut down considerably by the use of the existing organization in the Department of Agriculture, Mr. Flannagan. You have that part of it already established, and all you are doing is making use of the information for this purpose.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. Are you not placing an additional burden on the Federal Government by this provision:

Cooperating with farmers and migratory agricultural workers in making arrangements for health, medical, and burial services to such agricultural workers and their families through prepayment plans or other voluntary arrangements.

Is the Government going to take charge of that and work it out for you? Mr. TOLBERT. No, sir.