Mr. PACE. What happens to the 1,000 people a day increase in population?

Mr. BUNJE. Mr. Pace, one of the most difficult things in California today is the vast shift in population taking place there. We find a lot of people from your country are there, a great number of them, brought in by war industries, and many of them are unemployed today. They are strangers to that country. They need a lot of direction as to job opportunities.

Mr. PACE. I understand a good many are colored people.

Mr. BUNJE. That is right. Another interesting thing is that Pine Bluff, Ark., seems to be one of the sources from which many of these people came. We find we have inherited a vast population from Pine Bluff, and they happen to have settled in San Joaquin Valley. It is not unusual to run into colored people from Pine Bluff all in the same

crew.

That type of thing has happened not only in connection with Pine Bluff but many other communities. These people find good homes, they like it there, so they do not move out.

To know what effect it is going to have on the labor force and on industry requires the constant attention of an agency such as this. Mr. PACE. Are not the larger percentage from the farms of Arkansas?

Mr. BUNJE. Many are from the farms of Arkansas.

Mr. PACE. Why can't they take this work? You certainly pay a handsome wage there.

Mr. BUNJE. Here is another interesting experience_we have had with those people. We find they do excellent work. I am speaking now of some of the colored folks that come from your part of the country, Mr. Pace. We find they are excellent cotton pickers, but when it gets into ladder work where we have to employ people with the right physical characteristics, and short hoe and stoop labor, they have an awful time adjusting themselves.

Did you ever see them pick asparagus?

Mr. PACE. Yes.

Mr. BUNJE. They have got to operate in a stooped position during the entire time. On tomatoes also they have got to work in a stooped position. When these people get up on the ladders, especially in olives where they have got 40-foot ladders, they are just simply lost. There has been some effort made, through the booklets that the Extension Service put out and also some training they have been given, to improve the situation, and in some cases it has worked, but there isn't enough of it to do a good job.

Mr. PACE. Most of them can learn.

Mr. BUNJE. Yes; they can learn. The problem of assimilating those folks is what we have got to learn. California's labor history started with Chinese as the first foreign labor. There were many Malayans and Filipinos, Japanese and Hindus. The last of the Hindus are dying out in California. We used Mexicans. We had Armenians, Russians, and Germans. The Russians came in from the Volga River Valley. We are used to all the minority groups, but this is the first time we have had experience with the colored people, and we have got

a lot to learn.

Mr. JOHNSON. Are there any further questions?

Mr. GOFF. I do not think he has answered Mr. Pace's question, and that was, as I understood it, why this influx was not sufficient to take care of the seasonal work that you have.

Mr. BUNJE. Our concern isn't with that; it is with directing the flow of these workers. In other words, these border stations do not operate only for California. This migrant flow of workers goes way up into the State of Washington to pick apples. We find there are many patterns that these people adopt. The fact they work in California doesn't mean they spend all their time there. Studies of the migrant labor pattern revealed that it was not unusual for a worker to start in the Imperial Valley harvesting lettuce, then go in the Salinas Valley to harvest lettuce there, then cherries in California, then hops in Oregon, back to California for grapes, up to Washington for apples, then into Colorado for sugar beets, and back to California for cotton. This migrant pattern is not restricted to one State; it applies to many

areas.

Mr. GOFF. As a mattter of fact, you are not concerned with the provisions of this bill that provide for importation of foreign labor. Mr. BUNJE. We are vitally concerned with that phase of it. I will tell you why. Those foreign workers are desirable in certain types of crops in the United States, in Colorado and other areas in the West. What concerns the State of Colorado concerns us, too, because we have, naturally, with this employment, a great pool of people there. We have go to have them there or else we go out of business. We go out of business unless the producers' demands are satisfied. If they are not able to get an adequate force of domestic labor, if the Extension Service under this plan cannot find the workers to refer to them, then they have at least got this out, of being able to go into Mexico and recruiting their workers at their own expense and thus take the heat off us. We went through that in the twenties and it was a very desperate situation.

I brought some raisins and I would like to have the privilege, Mr. Chairman, of passing them to the committee.

Mr. JOHNSON. We will be glad to have them.

Mr. BUNJE. To give you an idea of the special production in San Joaquin Valley-and this is true of other parts of California, too— the average vineyard is, I believe, 23 acres. A man, his wife, and child can grow the raisin crops; he doesn't have to hire any help from the outside for 11 months and 1 week of the year, but that average vineyard during 3 weeks of the year requires about 24 people.

Mr. PACE. We have identically the same situation with peaches. We go to Macon or to Columbus, and some other big cities, and we would get fifteen or twenty thousand workers, move them to the peach orchards, and they pick the peaches, put them in the crates, and within 3 or 4 weeks' time it is all over. It isn't clear to me yet why you can't do the same thing. You have three times as many people as we have.

Mr. BUNJE. We do the same thing, Mr. Pace. As I mentioned. awhile ago, it is collecting the information, being accurate in it, and assisting in the referral into the areas.

Mr. PACE. The peach growers have an organization exactly like yours. They have a meeting and they say, "I need 50 people," or "I need 200 people," and then they get a man to pick them up and

send them to the farm. It has been true that under wartime conditions, with the Government paying the bill, they have been taking advantage of it-there is no doubt about that-and they would like to have it continue for the balance of their lives-for the Federal Government to hire the workers and bring them in at the Government's expense.

Mr. BUNJE. We don't want the Government to do it for us.

Mr. PACE. At the same time, right this minute they are gathering peaches in Georgia, and they are gathering them because they went to town and they got some agents who went out and recruited the workers and sent the trucks for them and brought them in there. They harvest for 3 or 4 weeks, they pay them off and say, “See you next year." It isn't clear to me why you can't do the same thing. Mr. BUNJE. All we want is a vehicle with which to work.

Mr. PACE. You certainly have a fine one in your organization which has had 21 years' experience.

Mr. BUNJE. Yes, sir; and the value of this thing we fully realize on the basis of our experience. We don't want a subsidy on this thing. That isn't the point.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. What do you want?
Mr. BUNJE. All we want is a vehicle.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. What kind of vehicle?

Mr. BUNJE. Such as I have recommended in my statement. Mr. FLANNAGAN. Just tell me what you want the Federal Government to do.

Mr. BUNJE. We want the Federal Government to establish, through the Extension Service-if that is the wish of Congress, within the Department of Agriculture, because of their knowledge of our local conditions and crop conditions-an agency which can, on the national basis, collect and disseminate information with respect to the supply and need for agricultural workers between the States.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. That is one thing.

Mr. BUNJE. Yes, sir.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. What else?

Mr. BUNJE. Secondly, we want the Federal Government to set up a Federal agency to cooperate with the State agency to the end that the information within the State can be properly correlated, and that information published and disseminated with respect to the need for and supply of agricultural workers.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. After the Federal Government sets up this agency in the Extension Service, what is the State to do?

Mr. BUNJE. I have given you two reasons.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. That looks like a good case. Under this bill the Secretary of Agriculture enters into a contract with the State extension services in the respective States.

Mr. BUNJE. Yes, sir.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. And it gathers and disseminates this information wherever it is required.

Mr. BUNJE. Yes.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. What else do you want?

Mr. BUNJE. We want the Federal Government to set up information centers so that workers will have a place to get this information.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. You want the Federal Government to establish recruitment stations all over your section and all over the United States; is that right?

Mr. BUNJE. I think the words "recruiting stations" are not descriptive of what we have in mind.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. What do you want?

Mr. BUNJE. I want information stations to which these people may go as they travel through the country, to find out where the jobs are. This is a big country and they have got to know where the work is.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. You want one information station set up in each locality?

Mr. BUNJE. In the State of California I think five is an adequate number. Bear in mind those five stations would serve perhaps four States, because it takes in the States of Oregon, Washington, Idaho, and California.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. All right; they set up the stations and we obtain the information as to where the surplus labor can be found. Mr. BUNJE. Yes.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. What else do you want?

Mr. BUNJE. All right. Now, then, on that basis we have collected this information and we will assume now we are short of labor in the San Joaquin Valley; that we find this great peak demand for labor is approaching and the normal supply is not sufficient, and the extension service in our State says, "Yes; we agree you are going to be short of labor on the basis of known facts;" then we say, "Where can we go? Where is there a surplus of labor?" They say to us, "You can go to Texas," or "You can go to Mexico," or "You can go to Oklahoma," or the Imperial Valley.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. All right; you have got the information. Then what?

Mr. BUNJE. Then we would like to be able to go to the Imperial Valley, go to the county agent there and say to him, "Here we are. We are prepared to recruit these people and we would like to have you direct us into these areas in which we can recruit the people. What are the proper facilities to use? Should we broadcast? Should we send out handbills or ring doorbells, or what is the best thing to do the thing right so it doesn't affect your economy here?"

Mr. FLANNAGAN. From there on what do you want to do?
Mr. BUNJE. That is our job.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. What?

Mr. BUNJE. Then we are ready to go to work.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. Have you read the bill?

Mr. BUNJE. Yes, sir.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. The bill doesn't stop there.

Mr. BUNJE. I am not a legal authority, sir, but that is what I feel we can get out of the bill.

Mr. COOLEY. You haven't gone on record in favor of the bill as written, have you?

Mr. BUNJE. No, sir. I endorse the principles of the bill.

Mr. COOLEY. I notice there is one thing you differ with and that is the provision with regard to the disposition of these labor camps. You think they should be taken over by the States, communities, or some public authority rather than individuals.

Mr. BUNJE. That is right. I think it has to be rewritten.
Mr. FLANNAGAN. Have you a copy of the bill?

Mr. BUNJE. Yes, sir.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. Have you read section 2 on page 2?
Mr. BUNJE. Yes, sir.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. Tell me what it means.

Mr. BUNJE. That refers to the collection of information.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. That is (a).

Mr. BUNJE. That is in connection with collecting the information in the State.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. All right. Is that the only thing that (a) contemplates? That is line 16.

Mr. BUNJE. Yes, sir. To me that means that the State agency will collect, publish, and disseminate this information with respect to labor supply, and so on. That second one, I would like to have somebody tell me what that means.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. I want somebody to tell me.

Mr. BUNJE. What I am thinking of is these booklets. Congressman Pace, you will appreciate this, because you know how difficult it is to train a man to properly trim and prune a peach tree, especially when he has had no experience. In California we appreciate the value of these booklets that they put out, so you can tell the people, "See, this is the way this thing should be done."

Mr. FLANNAGAN. You want the Government to get out booklets? Mr. BUNJE. That is right. I have heard about other work that has been done.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. You want the Government to make some demonstrations?

Mr. BUNJE. Demonstration has always been part of the Extension Service. I don't know why it has to be in here.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. You want the Extension Service or some representative of the Extension Service to take these laborers out in the field and show them how to work, is that right?

Mr. BUNJE. Mr. Flannagan, I don't think there is enough money to do that kind of job.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. I don't know. You said you would provide for demonstrations. I want to find out what all this is about.

Mr. BUNJE. Demonstration work, as I have seen it in California, is already a part of the practice of the Extension Service.

my

Mr. FLANNAGAN. Does the Extension Service go to my field and tell laborers how to cut corn or thresh wheat?

Mr. BUNJE. If that is what you would do then I wouldn't ask for that much money from Congress.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. If you are not satisfied with that, after appropriate studies and demonstrations, if those things don't cover the whole field then you put in this proviso: "Or other educational methods." Mr. BUNJE. I told you at the outset I am a little confused on this issue.

Mr. FLANNAGAN. I am badly confused about this piece of legislation, that is the reason I am trying to get information. It says

or other educational methods (assisting) farmers and agricultural workers in the adoption of improved practices and facilities for performing farm-labor operations.