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Senator STEIWER. That is a legal payment?

Senator DUFFY. That is a legal payment. The Indians need the money. It is their money.

Senator STEIWER. It is their money?

Senator DUFFY. Yes, indeed. Congress has approved from time to time similar provisions to this. It is their own money and they are entitled to use it. It should be left there and build up a fund and let some of their grandchildren get it, but they are entitled to it as they go along through here. It is their property.

They have a very fine mill there and they have a fine system of forestry, and they are in pretty fair shape. There is not any reason I can see, why. The income this year will amount to something like $1,000,000. This will take only about $100,000.

Senator STEIWER. I am not objecting to it. I had not heard any justification for withdrawing the funds at this time.

Mr. DODD. This is a tribe also, gentlemen, which pays its own way. The Government is not paying the expenses of this tribe. They pay for the hospitalization of their people. They pay for schooling their children, they care for their old people, and they have a sawmill there from which they receive a good income each year.

Senator DUFFY. If the Government had more tribes like the Menominees, it would be in fine shape.

Senator HAYDEN. Is that all?
Senator DUFFY. Yes.

BUREAU OF MINES

Senator BANKHEAD. I have two witnesses here from Alabama, Mr. Chairman, on a proposed increase of the appropriation for the Bureau of Mines. There are also some Members of the House present who are interested in that item. Mr. Starnes is here. He wants to go on back. He is interested in it and I think that we should give him an opportunity to make a statement.

Senator HAYDEN. We will be very glad to hear Mr. Starnes.

TUSCALOOSA, (ALA)., STATION

STATEMENT OF HON. JOE STARNES, A REPRESENTATIVE IN CONGRESS FROM THE STATE OF ALABAMA

Mr. STARNES. Mr. Chairman and members of the committee: The appropriation referred to is contained in a lump sum to care for all of the activities of the Bureau of Mines at the various mining stations, and I want to invite the attention of the committee particularly to the School of Mines station located at Tuscaloosa, Ala., on the campus of the University of Alabama.

There are 12 of these mine stations throughout the country, and the particular station to which I refer is the one at Tuscaloosa, which serves the entire southeastern section of the United States.

And in that connection, it deals with nonmetallic minerals as well as the other types of minerals.

Some of our stations operate in a very limited field. Some of them handle only one mineral, or pertain only to gold or silver, or some par

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ticular substance of that type or nature, whereas this particular station handles both minerals and nonmetallic minerals and serves a wider geographic area than any other mining station in the whole United States. This southeastern section of the country contains a greater variety of minerals and nonmetallic minerals than any section of the country or as to that matter than any country in the world. Senator HAYDEN. What is it that you desire?

Mr. STARNES. At the present time, if I can just briefly give you the situation with regard to the station at Tuscaloosa.

Senator BANKHEAD. We have the people here from the Bureau of Mines to testify, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. STARNES. The details, of course, will be given by Mr. Cudworth, who is the superintendent of the school of mines."

Senator HAYDEN. The station has been set up.

Senator BANKHEAD. Yes.

Mr. STARNES. I want to call your attention briefly to the general situation, and that is this: During the last year a new building was provided on the campus there for the Bureau of Mines and we have 20,000 additional square feet of floor space, with the equipment for metallic and nonmetallic researches. In other words, we have the plant and equipment, Senator, but we do not have the staff nor the appropriation to carry on adequate field work. Their funds are limited. They are given $16,900 out of that appropriation of $305,000, which only provides for the operation of the staff of four technologists. Senator HAYDEN. How were these new buildings erected?

Mr. STARNES. The new buildings were erected through funds provided by the university and by the P. W. A.

They probably have one of the most up-to-date plants in the entire country, but they do not have the staff to carry on the work and it seems to us to be short-sighted economy to provide buildings and facilities to carry on very much needed work in that important section of the country, which means the development of the whole country, and not provide a working staff of technologists and funds to carry on the research work.

In that particular, Senator, I might state the money is specifically needed to carry on research and experimental work in extraction, preparation, and treatment of nonmetallic minerals in numerous deposits of clay which if properly purified could be used in place of clay now being imported for pottery, decorative tile, and other highgrade uses. More than 200,000 tons of special clay were imported during our worst depression year. This amount rises to more than 500,000 tons in profitable years. There are excellent prospects of applying flotation, fratation, and chemical treatment methods to purify and prepare clay for the manufacture of high-grade building brick, tile, and other structural material in that area. That is particularly true of the States of Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia. With the permission of the members of the committee, I will later

file a letter from the State geologist of the State of Alabama.

Senator HAYDEN. They may be included in the record.

Mr. STARNES. That may be included in the record?

Senator HAYDEN. Yes.

(The statement referred to is as follows:)

Hon. JOE STARNES,

House of Representatives, Washington, D. C.

MARCH 22, 1937.

DEAR JOE: As a member of the Appropriations Committee, I do hope that you can find time to watch out for a suitable and proper increase in the appropriation for the Southern Experiment Station located here at the university. This station serves all of the Southeastern States, and carries out its work efficiently and impartially.

The United States Bureau of Mines has experiment stations in various parts of the United States. Ours has always been inadequately supported. I, for one, and I know you will concur in that view, believe that the South is as fine and worthy as any spot on this globe. Certainly we are becoming more and more dependent on our mineral resources and the industries based upon those resources. Therefore, I really believe that there is an opportunity now for you to render a signal service, not only to your State, but to the South, in providing a really adequate appropriation for the Southern Experiment Station.

It is my opinion that an annual appropriation of about $100,000 in addition to the some $25,000 which they now get, would enable this station to really do a handsome job in the matter of utilization of ores and minerals in the manufacture of various mineral products. The station is particularly well equipped to work on coals. Much fine work has been done on Florida, Tennessee, and South Carolina phosphate rock. They are just now completing experiments which tend to prove that all of the 20-Big Seam in the Birmingham district can be profitably utilized, instead of the perhaps 6 feet that are now being used. They have done much constructive work. With an adequate appropriation, their field of service can be very greatly extended. I submit to you that the South is most worthy of that opportunity.

If you desire any additional information as to what the experiment station is and does, I would be most happy to submit it. With every good wish, I am,

Sincerely yours,

WALTER B. JONES, State Geologist.

UNITED STATES DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR,

Hon. RICHARD B. RUSSELL, Jr.,

BUREAU OF MINES, Washington, February 1, 1937.

United States Senate, Washington, D. C.

MY DEAR SENATOR: I have received your communication enclosing a letter from Richard W. Smith, State geologist, Atlanta, Ga., suggesting the desirability of extending the work of the Bureau of Mines experiment station at Tuscaloosa, Ala., to include investigations of preparation of minerals occurring in abundance in the Southeastern States and particularly in Georgia.

Through a Public Works allotment the Bureau of Mines station at Tuscaloosa was recently provided with enlarged facilities by construction of a modern laboratory building on a 24-acre site donated by the University of Alabama. This will enable the Bureau, as additional funds for research work are made available, to undertake investigations of southeastern minerals that formerly were beyond the scope of station facilities. There are many problems awaiting solution in each of the States served by the Alabama station, such as those suggested by Mr. Smith with relation to development of Georgia's mineral resources.

There are many deposits, particularly of nonmetallic minerals, in the southern Appalachian region that must be subjected to some form of treatment to produce a cleaned product suitable for commercial use. It is in this field of development of suitable methods of beneficiation that the Bureau through the enlarged facilities of its Alabama station can best serve the Southern States. In this work any amount up to $100,000 could be expended advantageously.

The Bureau of Mines is fully alive to the possibilities afforded by the new station building and the needs and desires of the industry. It is our desire gradually to build up the personnel and equipment at Tuscaloosa in order more adequately to supply the services needed by the mineral industry of that area. However, it has not been possible to include within the limits of our approved budget for 1938 any additional funds for this station.

Cordially yours,

JOHN W. FINCH, Director.

Mr. STARNES. In addition to clay there is a wide variety of other southern minerals which can be utilized, if proper methods were developed for their extraction, treatment and purification.

Removal of iron stains, and other discoloring materials from glass sands, from feldspar needed for pottery; from kyanite that is to be used for the production of lithium salts and in making special glasses; and from barite that is to be used in paints, and for chemical purposes. Senator HAYDEN. I note in the record that that proposal was submitted to the House.

Mr. STARNES. On the floor of the House.

Senator HAYDEN. On the floor of the House and that by virtue of the fact that there was a very light attendance, and a rather close

vote

Mr. STARNES (interposing). I lost out.

Senator HAYDEN. It was not adopted?

Mr. STARNES. And frankly, Senator Hayden, I lost out because of the fact that Governor Scrugham raised the point that there was an attempt at duplication of the effort along those lines in the Tennessee Valley areas, that the Tennessee Valley Authority was doing a certain amount of work at Knoxville in potteries and clays and so forth which would be a duplication of this work.

Now, after that occurred, I took the matter up with the Bureau of Mines and I have a letter from the Director of the Bureau of Mines dated April 30, 1937, in which it is very clearly set out that there will be no duplication, and with the permission of the committee, I would like to introduce that letter as a part of the record to show that there is absolutely no duplication of the work which is being done by the Bureau of Standards, or the work of the Tennessee Valley Authority at Knoxville on ceramics or at Muscle Shoals on phosphates. He very clearly defines the limits in which both of these agencies work and shows that there is no duplication.

Senator HAYDEN. The letter will be included in the record and we will also inquire of Dr. Finch with regard to that.

Mr. STARNES. That will be very fine. (The letter referred to is as follows:)

DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR,

Hon. JOE STARNES,

House of Representatives, Washington, D. C.

BUREAU OF MINES, Washington, April 30, 1937.

MY DEAR MR. STARNES: With reference to your letter of April 23, requesting information on whether or not the Bureau of Mines is duplicating work on clays which is being done by the Bureau of Standards, or work of the Tennessee Valley Authority on ceramics and phosphates:

The Bureau of Mines is not duplicating any of the work of either of these organizations. Our work on clay deals with the mining, preparation, and beneficiation of clays and nonmetallic minerals; while the Bureau of Standards, and the Tennessee Valley Authority manufacture pottery, tile, and other ceramic ware from properly prepared and purified clays combined with other nonmetallic minerals.

The Tennessee Valley Authority is interested in producing ceramic ware from Tennessee Valley clays, and in the utilization of electric heating in firing such ceramic ware. About 18 months ago, officials of the Tennessee Valley Authority asked the Bureau of Mines to send ore-dressing engineers from our Southern experiment station to North Carolina to devise methods for preparing and purifying certain southern clays which were thought to be suitable for making tableware. The Bureau of Mines responded to this call and conducted this research in cooperation with the Tennessee Valley Authority. The Bureau's men prepared

and purified the clays at the mines, and the ceramic engineers of the Tennessee Valley Authority made the tableware and burned it in their laboratory at Norris. Great progress was made in purifying these clays, and if adequate appropriations are made for the Bureau's southern experiment station similar work will be done on various southern clays.

It is my understanding that the Tennessee Valley Authority has built a large plant for making fertilizer from phosphate rock. The Bureau of Mines is not doing any work on the manufacture of fertilizer. We have done work on the recovery of waste fine material in the pebble phosphate deposits of Florida. A considerable waste has been prevented by the Bureau's work. This fine phosphate is now being recovered by flotation methods, a procedure which was adapted to the phosphate mines from metal mining practice, by Bureau of Mines engineers. It is true that the ceramics work formerly done by the Bureau of Mines at its Ceramics Station, Columbus, Ohio, was transferred to the Bureau of Standards on June 4, 1925, when the Bureau of Mines was transferred from the Department of Interior to the Department of Commerce. Following this transfer the Bureau of Mines discontinued research in ceramics. However, ceramics research does not include mining, preparation, and purification of nonmetallic minerals which are used for ceramic purposes. There is a definite understanding between the Bureau of Mines and the Bureau of Standards on this dividing line. The Bureau of Mines deals with the mining, preparation, and processing of mineral materials, whereas the Bureau of Standards deals with the manufacture and standardization of the finished products. For example, in the case of iron, the Bureau of Mines deals with the mining and milling of the ore, the reduction of the ore to iron in the blast furnace, and the manufacture of steel in open-hearth furnace or Bessemer converter. The material is carried up to the ingot stage. From the ingot stage the process comes in the field of the Bureau of Standards. They deal with the manufacture of rails, structural steel, and other finished products.

The statement which you submitted with your letter is being returned herewith. All of the projects suggested in this statement are within the province of the Bureau of Mines. It contains nothing that is being duplicated by the Bureau of Standards.

Yours faithfully,

JOHN W. FINCH, Director.

Mr. STARNES. I also have a copy of a letter which was addressed to Senator Russell by the State geologist of the State of Georgia which I would like to include in the record.

(The letter referred to is as follows:)

Senator RICHARD B. RUSSELL,

Senate Office Building, Washington, D. C.

JANUARY 21, 1937.

DEAR SENATOR RUSSELL: I have recently contacted the United States Bureau of Mines in regard to possible research work on Georgia minerals at the southern experiment station located on the campus of the University of Alabama at Tuscaloosa, Ala. I find that although the southern experiment station has a fine new laboratory with modern equipment they are very much limited as to the amount of research work that they can undertake by having a staff of only four technologists and a very inadequate appropriation.

As you no doubt know, there are many problems connected with the treatment and uses of Georgia minerals that the Bureau of Mines should be working on. The excellent work that they have bone on the recovery of Georgia kyanite should be continued and extended to cover possible uses with Georgia kaolins and bauxites in the manufacture of regular and special refractories. Additional work should be done on the beneficiation of our kaolins for special uses, on the activation of our bentonitic clays for use as bleaching clays, on the testing of Georgia materials for the manufacture of rock and glass wool for insulation, on the finding of new uses for the waste products from our granite and marble industries, on finding new uses for our slate deposits, on the milling and treatment of our tripoli deposits, and on the milling and treatment of our Georgia gold cres.

With these and other problems in mind, there has been prepared some notes on a proposed increase in appropriation for the southern experiment station, a copy of which I enclose. I hope that you will carefully read the enclosed papers and use your influence to obtain the increase in appropriation necessary to make this experiment station fill its proper place in developing the mineral industry of the South.

Very truly yours,

STATE GEOLOGIST.

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